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mouse movement detection? [message #173852] Tue, 10 May 2011 12:57 Go to next message
richard is currently offline  richard   
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Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
detecting mouse movement.
I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
minutes.
I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
page for a couple of hours.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173853 is a reply to message #173852] Tue, 10 May 2011 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gregor Kofler is currently offline  Gregor Kofler
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Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> detecting mouse movement.

No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
client computer.

> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
> minutes.
> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
> page for a couple of hours.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...

All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
interaction, too).

Gregor


--
http://vxweb.net
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173854 is a reply to message #173853] Tue, 10 May 2011 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
richard is currently offline  richard   
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On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:

> Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
>> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>> detecting mouse movement.
>
> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
> client computer.
>
>> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>> minutes.
>> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>> page for a couple of hours.
>
> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>
> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
> server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
> interaction, too).
>
> Gregor

that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173855 is a reply to message #173854] Tue, 10 May 2011 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
P E Schoen is currently offline  P E Schoen
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"richard" wrote in message news:1l6ipxzio1vee$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux...

> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:

>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse
> attached to a client computer.
>
>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>
>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected
>> by the server (though this request could be invoked by JS without
>> explicit interaction, too).

> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.

It would be interesting to check the source of the HTML of the original web
page. The server-side PHP script could generate JavaScript that invokes a
timer and also an event handler for mouse movement.

http://www.toknowmore.net/e/1/javascript/javascript-onmousemove.php

The mousemove event would reset the timer, so if no movement was detected,
the timeout would occur and the client-side webpage could post to the
server, which would then send the new web page to the client.

Paul
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173856 is a reply to message #173854] Tue, 10 May 2011 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimp is currently offline  jimp
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richard <member(at)newsguy(dot)com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
>
>> Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
>>> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>>> detecting mouse movement.
>>
>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
>> client computer.
>>
>>> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>>> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>>> minutes.
>>> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>>> page for a couple of hours.
>>
>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>>
>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
>> server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
>> interaction, too).
>>
>> Gregor
>
> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.

Nope, a cookie can't tell if the mouse has moved, all it can determine is
that nothing had been clicked since the last reload.

To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
timeout occured or a load another page.



--
Jim Pennino

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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173857 is a reply to message #173856] Tue, 10 May 2011 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert Heller is currently offline  Robert Heller
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At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:

>
> richard <member(at)newsguy(dot)com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>
>>> Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
>>>> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>>>> detecting mouse movement.
>>>
>>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
>>> client computer.
>>>
>>>> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>>>> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>>>> minutes.
>>>> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>>>> page for a couple of hours.
>>>
>>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>>>
>>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
>>> server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
>>> interaction, too).
>>>
>>> Gregor
>>
>> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.
>
> Nope, a cookie can't tell if the mouse has moved, all it can determine is
> that nothing had been clicked since the last reload.
>
> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
> timeout occured or a load another page.

Right. JavaScript is your *enemy*... Many webpages have more
JavaScript than HTML... In some cases, the site practically downloads
the whole site and then does everything with JavaScript and the
occasional use of AJAX. Which is probably great if you have an
insanely fast computer on an insanely fast Internet connection. Such
sites totally suck on slower computers and esp. on slow (read: dialup)
Internet connections. Of course these JS timeout hacks fail when they
timeout and there is nolonger a network connection (sorry guys, I hung
up the phone...).

>
>
>

--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / heller(at)deepsoft(dot)com
Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173858 is a reply to message #173855] Tue, 10 May 2011 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
richard is currently offline  richard   
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On Tue, 10 May 2011 15:42:54 -0400, P E Schoen wrote:

> "richard" wrote in message news:1l6ipxzio1vee$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux...
>
>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
>
>>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse
>> attached to a client computer.
>>
>>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>>
>>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected
>>> by the server (though this request could be invoked by JS without
>>> explicit interaction, too).
>
>> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.
>
> It would be interesting to check the source of the HTML of the original web
> page. The server-side PHP script could generate JavaScript that invokes a
> timer and also an event handler for mouse movement.
>
> http://www.toknowmore.net/e/1/javascript/javascript-onmousemove.php
>
> The mousemove event would reset the timer, so if no movement was detected,
> the timeout would occur and the client-side webpage could post to the
> server, which would then send the new web page to the client.
>
> Paul

www.bidrack.com

Just leave the page open for an hour or so and see what happens.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173859 is a reply to message #173858] Tue, 10 May 2011 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimp is currently offline  jimp
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richard <member(at)newsguy(dot)com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 15:42:54 -0400, P E Schoen wrote:
>
>> "richard" wrote in message news:1l6ipxzio1vee$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux...
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
>>
>>>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse
>>> attached to a client computer.
>>>
>>>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>>>
>>>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected
>>>> by the server (though this request could be invoked by JS without
>>>> explicit interaction, too).
>>
>>> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.
>>
>> It would be interesting to check the source of the HTML of the original web
>> page. The server-side PHP script could generate JavaScript that invokes a
>> timer and also an event handler for mouse movement.
>>
>> http://www.toknowmore.net/e/1/javascript/javascript-onmousemove.php
>>
>> The mousemove event would reset the timer, so if no movement was detected,
>> the timeout would occur and the client-side webpage could post to the
>> server, which would then send the new web page to the client.
>>
>> Paul
>
> www.bidrack.com
>
> Just leave the page open for an hour or so and see what happens.

You don't have to leave the page open for an hour.

Access the page with a javascript debugger like Firebug installed and
watch as all the javascript and timers are downloaded.


--
Jim Pennino

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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173860 is a reply to message #173857] Tue, 10 May 2011 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas 'PointedEars'  is currently offline  Thomas 'PointedEars'
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Robert Heller wrote:

> At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:
>> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
>> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
>> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
>> timeout occured or a load another page.
>
> Right. JavaScript is your *enemy*...

Nonsense. Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.

> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...

That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a programming
language. There are things you can do in a programming language that you
cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.

> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
> everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.

That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
language or the technology per se. After all, you can do some pretty stupid
things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.

You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
what you are talking about.


PointedEars
--
realism: HTML 4.01 Strict
evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173861 is a reply to message #173860] Tue, 10 May 2011 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Robert Heller wrote:
>
>> At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:
>>> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
>>> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
>>> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
>>> timeout occured or a load another page.
>>
>> Right. JavaScript is your *enemy*...
>
> Nonsense. Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.
>
>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>
> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a programming
> language. There are things you can do in a programming language that you
> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>

Javascript IS a programming language.

>> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
>> everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
>
> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
> language or the technology per se. After all, you can do some pretty stupid
> things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.
>
> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
> what you are talking about.
>

You should follow your own advice.

>
> PointedEars


--
==================
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JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173863 is a reply to message #173860] Tue, 10 May 2011 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert Heller is currently offline  Robert Heller
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At Tue, 10 May 2011 23:52:11 +0200 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars(at)web(dot)de> wrote:

>
> Robert Heller wrote:
>
>> At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:
>>> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
>>> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
>>> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
>>> timeout occured or a load another page.
>>
>> Right. JavaScript is your *enemy*...
>
> Nonsense. Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.
>
>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>
> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a programming
> language. There are things you can do in a programming language that you
> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>
>> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
>> everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
>
> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
> language or the technology per se. After all, you can do some pretty stupid
> things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.

There are many of these 'abusive' websites...

>
> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
> what you are talking about.

Web sites that use JavaScript to redirect after a timeout period are
another form of abuse.

>
>
> PointedEars

--
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Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
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/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173865 is a reply to message #173852] Tue, 10 May 2011 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:16 -0700, in comp.lang.php richard
<member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
<5jmrvpnl392w$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux> wrote:

> | Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> | detecting mouse movement.
> | I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
> | been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
> | minutes.
> | I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
> | page for a couple of hours.


It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173866 is a reply to message #173865] Wed, 11 May 2011 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimp is currently offline  jimp
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Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:16 -0700, in comp.lang.php richard
> <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
> <5jmrvpnl392w$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux> wrote:
>
>> | Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>> | detecting mouse movement.
>> | I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>> | been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>> | minutes.
>> | I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>> | page for a couple of hours.
>
>
> It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
> setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">

Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.


--
Jim Pennino

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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173867 is a reply to message #173863] Wed, 11 May 2011 02:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erwin Moller is currently offline  Erwin Moller
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On 5/11/2011 3:24 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Tue, 10 May 2011 23:52:11 +0200 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn<PointedEars(at)web(dot)de> wrote:
>
>>
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>>> At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:
>>>> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
>>>> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
>>>> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
>>>> timeout occured or a load another page.
>>>
>>> Right. JavaScript is your *enemy*...
>>
>> Nonsense. Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.
>>
>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>
>> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a programming
>> language. There are things you can do in a programming language that you
>> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>>
>>> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
>>> everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
>>
>> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
>> language or the technology per se. After all, you can do some pretty stupid
>> things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.
>
> There are many of these 'abusive' websites...
>
>>
>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>> what you are talking about.
>
> Web sites that use JavaScript to redirect after a timeout period are
> another form of abuse.

Agree.
JavaScript is abused most of the time in my humble opinion. But it can
also be a very useful tool to bring life to a webpage.
I agree with Thomas that "Nonsense. Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid
people, are [the enemy].".

Tip:
1) Use firefox
2) Install an add-on named NoScript.

Make your life easier if you dislike JavaScript-heavy websites.
You can adjust which domains you allow to load/use JavaScript into the
webpage you are visiting.
It is an easy to use add-on and you don't need arcane knowledge to
activate or use it.

Regards,
Erwin Moller

>
>>
>>
>> PointedEars
>


--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173869 is a reply to message #173861] Wed, 11 May 2011 04:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas 'PointedEars'  is currently offline  Thomas 'PointedEars'
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Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>
>> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a
>> programming language. There are things you can do in a programming
>> language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>> requires more characters.
>
> Javascript IS a programming language.

There is no "Javascript". However, if you had paid attention, you would
have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming
language.

>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>> what you are talking about.
>>
>
> You should follow your own advice.

Pot, kettle, black.


PointedEars
--
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
-- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f806at$ail$1$8300dec7(at)news(dot)demon(dot)co(dot)uk>
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173870 is a reply to message #173863] Wed, 11 May 2011 05:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas 'PointedEars'  is currently offline  Thomas 'PointedEars'
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Robert Heller wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then
>>> does everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
>>
>> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
>> language or the technology per se. After all, you can do some pretty
>> stupid things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.
>
> There are many of these 'abusive' websites...

Your argument is fallacious. There are many badly written Web sites,
regardless of the underlying technology.

>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>> what you are talking about.
>
> Web sites that use JavaScript to redirect after a timeout period are
> another form of abuse.

That depends on the use-case. For example, it is actually a Good Idea to
have a client-side script log you out automatically after you have been idle
for a defined time; it prevents others from abusing your login for cracking
their way into the system. If possible, that timeout should be user-
defined, though. For example, I am frequently irritated by Outlook Web
Access logging me out too soon, and there appears to be no built-in way for
me to increase the timeout from the client side (I can think of a
Greasemonkey script to work around it of course, but not all OWA users are
programmers).

BTW, this is quite off-topic here.


PointedEars
--
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
-- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f806at$ail$1$8300dec7(at)news(dot)demon(dot)co(dot)uk>
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173871 is a reply to message #173866] Wed, 11 May 2011 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas 'PointedEars'  is currently offline  Thomas 'PointedEars'
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jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:

> Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> richard wrote:
>>> | Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>>> | detecting mouse movement.
>>> | I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>>> | been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for
>>> | 10 minutes.
>>> | I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on
>>> | the page for a couple of hours.
>>
>> It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
>> setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
>
> Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.

Yes, it can, but like client-side scripting it is not guaranteed to work.

Do you have permission to use sux.com?


PointedEars
--
Danny Goodman's books are out of date and teach practices that are
positively harmful for cross-browser scripting.
-- Richard Cornford, cljs, <cife6q$253$1$8300dec7(at)news(dot)demon(dot)co(dot)uk> (2004)
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173873 is a reply to message #173869] Wed, 11 May 2011 06:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 5/11/2011 4:49 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>
>>> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a
>>> programming language. There are things you can do in a programming
>>> language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>>> requires more characters.
>>
>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>
> There is no "Javascript". However, if you had paid attention, you would
> have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming
> language.
>

Can't even understand your own rantings now, I see.

>>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>>> what you are talking about.
>>>
>>
>> You should follow your own advice.
>
> Pot, kettle, black.
>
>
> PointedEars

And still blaming the rest of the world for your screwups.

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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173878 is a reply to message #173873] Wed, 11 May 2011 08:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas 'PointedEars'  is currently offline  Thomas 'PointedEars'
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Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 5/11/2011 4:49 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>> > Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>>
>>>> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a
>>>> programming language. There are things you can do in a programming
>>>> language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>>>> requires more characters.
>>>
>>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>>
>> There is no "Javascript". However, if you had paid attention, you would
>> have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming
>> language.
>
> Can't even understand your own rantings now, I see.

I know what I have written, and how it was meant. But I can see how you
might already be challenged by commutativity, so here it is in slightly
simpler terms: If there are two balls in a box, a red one and a blue one,
then one of them is blue.


HTH

PointedEars
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a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173881 is a reply to message #173866] Wed, 11 May 2011 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Wed, 11 May 2011 04:00:09 -0000, in comp.lang.php
jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
<97ep98-c2m(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:

> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | > On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:16 -0700, in comp.lang.php richard
> | > <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
> | > <5jmrvpnl392w$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux> wrote:
> | >
> | >>| Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> | >>| detecting mouse movement.
> | >>| I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
> | >>| been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
> | >>| minutes.
> | >>| I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
> | >>| page for a couple of hours.
> | >
> | >
> | > It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
> | > setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
> |
> | Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.

True. You would need to define which page to direct to:
<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="2;url=refresh1.htm">

Works with FF4 (although FF complains), IE9, Opera, Safari.

This is an old technique for page refreshes before the days of AJAX.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173887 is a reply to message #173878] Wed, 11 May 2011 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 5/11/2011 8:24 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/2011 4:49 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> > Robert Heller wrote:
>>>> >> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>> >
>>>> > That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a
>>>> > programming language. There are things you can do in a programming
>>>> > language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>>>> > requires more characters.
>>>>
>>>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>>>
>>> There is no "Javascript". However, if you had paid attention, you would
>>> have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming
>>> language.
>>
>> Can't even understand your own rantings now, I see.
>
> I know what I have written, and how it was meant. But I can see how you
> might already be challenged by commutativity, so here it is in slightly
> simpler terms: If there are two balls in a box, a red one and a blue one,
> then one of them is blue.
>
>
> HTH
>
> PointedEars

ROFLMAO! Still trying to twist your way out of once again showing you
have no idea what you're talking about. But that's OK - you're well
known for not knowing anything in several newsgroups - not just this one.

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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173889 is a reply to message #173852] Wed, 11 May 2011 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherm Pendley is currently offline  Sherm Pendley
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richard <member(at)newsguy(dot)com> writes:

> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> detecting mouse movement.

JavaScript might, but PHP runs on the server.

sherm--
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173890 is a reply to message #173861] Wed, 11 May 2011 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherm Pendley is currently offline  Sherm Pendley
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Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> writes:

> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>
>> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a programming
>> language. There are things you can do in a programming language that you
>> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>
> Javascript IS a programming language.

Yes, and the other (HTML) is a markup language. What are you going on
about then?

sherm--
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173892 is a reply to message #173890] Wed, 11 May 2011 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 5/11/2011 11:36 AM, Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> writes:
>
>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>
>>> That goes without saying. One is a markup language, the other a programming
>>> language. There are things you can do in a programming language that you
>>> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>>
>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>
> Yes, and the other (HTML) is a markup language. What are you going on
> about then?
>
> sherm--

Because the discussion was about PHP and Javascript. "Pointed Head" is
the only one who brought up HTML.

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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173894 is a reply to message #173881] Wed, 11 May 2011 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimp is currently offline  jimp
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Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2011 04:00:09 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> <97ep98-c2m(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | > On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:16 -0700, in comp.lang.php richard
>> | > <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
>> | > <5jmrvpnl392w$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux> wrote:
>> | >
>> | >>| Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>> | >>| detecting mouse movement.
>> | >>| I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>> | >>| been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>> | >>| minutes.
>> | >>| I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>> | >>| page for a couple of hours.
>> | >
>> | >
>> | > It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
>> | > setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
>> |
>> | Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.
>
> True. You would need to define which page to direct to:
> <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="2;url=refresh1.htm">
>
> Works with FF4 (although FF complains), IE9, Opera, Safari.
>
> This is an old technique for page refreshes before the days of AJAX.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Of course you can make a page refresh itself with HTML.

But what you can not do with HTML is tell if the mouse has moved or not.

Only client side scripting can do that.


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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173895 is a reply to message #173871] Wed, 11 May 2011 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimp is currently offline  jimp
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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars(at)web(dot)de> wrote:
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:
>
>> Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>>> richard wrote:
>>>> | Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>>>> | detecting mouse movement.
>>>> | I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>>>> | been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for
>>>> | 10 minutes.
>>>> | I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on
>>>> | the page for a couple of hours.
>>>
>>> It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
>>> setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
>>
>> Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.
>
> Yes, it can, but like client-side scripting it is not guaranteed to work.

OK then, tell us what HTML tag will tell you whether or not the mouse has
moved.

Doing it in javascript is rather trivial.


> Do you have permission to use sux.com?

Permission to do what exactly?


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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173896 is a reply to message #173895] Wed, 11 May 2011 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas 'PointedEars'  is currently offline  Thomas 'PointedEars'
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jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars(at)web(dot)de> wrote:
>> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com wrote:
>>> Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>>>> richard wrote:
>>>> >| Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method
>>>> >| of detecting mouse movement.
>>>> >| I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I
>>>> >| had been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle
>>>> >| for 10 minutes.
>>>> >| I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on
>>>> >| the page for a couple of hours.
>>>> It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
>>>> setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
>>> Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.
>> Yes, it can, but like client-side scripting it is not guaranteed to work.
>
> OK then, tell us what HTML tag will tell you whether or not the mouse has
> moved.

That is beside the point. As accurate as "richard"'s problem descriptions
usually go, chances are it did not say that their "mouse had been idle", but
that *they* had been idle, i.e. they had not navigated anywhere on that
site. You can deal with this condition with a META-refresh, although as I
said it is not reliable.

> Doing it in javascript is rather trivial.

There is no "javascript". In any ECMAScript implementation, it cannot be
done reliably either, partially because one usually cannot determine pointer
movements beyond the browser viewport.

>> Do you have permission to use sux.com?
>
> Permission to do what exactly?

To specify a mailbox at one of their sub-level domains.


PointedEars
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var bugRiddenCrashPronePieceOfJunk = (
navigator.userAgent.indexOf('MSIE 5') != -1
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) // Plone, register_function.js:16
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173904 is a reply to message #173894] Wed, 11 May 2011 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php
jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
<2irq98-6k2(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:

> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | > On Wed, 11 May 2011 04:00:09 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> | > <97ep98-c2m(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
> | >
> | >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | >>| > On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:16 -0700, in comp.lang.php richard
> | >>| > <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
> | >>| > <5jmrvpnl392w$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux> wrote:
> | >>| >
> | >>| >>| Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> | >>| >>| detecting mouse movement.
> | >>| >>| I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
> | >>| >>| been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
> | >>| >>| minutes.
> | >>| >>| I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
> | >>| >>| page for a couple of hours.
> | >>| >
> | >>| >
> | >>| > It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
> | >>| > setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
> | >>|
> | >>| Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.
> | >
> | > True. You would need to define which page to direct to:
> | > <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="2;url=refresh1.htm">
> | >
> | > Works with FF4 (although FF complains), IE9, Opera, Safari.
> | >
> | > This is an old technique for page refreshes before the days of AJAX.
> |
> | I'm not sure what your point is.
> |
> | Of course you can make a page refresh itself with HTML.
> |
> | But what you can not do with HTML is tell if the mouse has moved or not.
> |
> | Only client side scripting can do that.

It is not whether the mouse has moved but whether or not the page has
been sitting idle for too long.
For example, you may have a form and a session cookie that times out
in 20 minutes. If you haven't successfully submitted the form within
the allotted time then the cookie expires and you will need to log in
again.

Re-reading the OP I think that the statement was a red-herring, maybe
an over simplification of the session timeout. This can easily be
proven by disabling Javascript then waiting 10 minutes - then see what
happens. If nothing happens than it is probably Javascript looking at
mouse movement. If the page does redirect then it is probably the meta
refresh in action.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173906 is a reply to message #173904] Thu, 12 May 2011 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimp is currently offline  jimp
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Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> <2irq98-6k2(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | > On Wed, 11 May 2011 04:00:09 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
>> | > <97ep98-c2m(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>> | >
>> | >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | >>| > On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:16 -0700, in comp.lang.php richard
>> | >>| > <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
>> | >>| > <5jmrvpnl392w$(dot)dlg(at)evanplatt(dot)sux> wrote:
>> | >>| >
>> | >>| >>| Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>> | >>| >>| detecting mouse movement.
>> | >>| >>| I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>> | >>| >>| been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>> | >>| >>| minutes.
>> | >>| >>| I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>> | >>| >>| page for a couple of hours.
>> | >>| >
>> | >>| >
>> | >>| > It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
>> | >>| > setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600">
>> | >>|
>> | >>| Can't be done with just an HTML refresh.
>> | >
>> | > True. You would need to define which page to direct to:
>> | > <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="2;url=refresh1.htm">
>> | >
>> | > Works with FF4 (although FF complains), IE9, Opera, Safari.
>> | >
>> | > This is an old technique for page refreshes before the days of AJAX.
>> |
>> | I'm not sure what your point is.
>> |
>> | Of course you can make a page refresh itself with HTML.
>> |
>> | But what you can not do with HTML is tell if the mouse has moved or not.
>> |
>> | Only client side scripting can do that.
>
> It is not whether the mouse has moved but whether or not the page has
> been sitting idle for too long.
> For example, you may have a form and a session cookie that times out
> in 20 minutes. If you haven't successfully submitted the form within
> the allotted time then the cookie expires and you will need to log in
> again.
>
> Re-reading the OP I think that the statement was a red-herring, maybe
> an over simplification of the session timeout. This can easily be
> proven by disabling Javascript then waiting 10 minutes - then see what
> happens. If nothing happens than it is probably Javascript looking at
> mouse movement. If the page does redirect then it is probably the meta
> refresh in action.

If you read all the posts, you will see that he posted a link to the site
in question.

I accessed the site with Firebug turned on and watched all the javascript
download and the timers reset as I moved the mouse.

So, for the site in question:

Yes, it uses javascript.

Yes, it uses javascript timers to see if there is any mouse movement.

And no, you can not do that with just HTML.


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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173908 is a reply to message #173906] Thu, 12 May 2011 02:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Thu, 12 May 2011 04:35:51 -0000, in comp.lang.php
jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
<7m4s98-8i8(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:

> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | > On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php

[snip]

> | If you read all the posts, you will see that he posted a link to the site
> | in question.

Not all posts come through and NO I did not get that posting.

> | I accessed the site with Firebug turned on and watched all the javascript
> | download and the timers reset as I moved the mouse.

Lucky you.

> | So, for the site in question:
> |
> | Yes, it uses javascript.
> |
> | Yes, it uses javascript timers to see if there is any mouse movement.

Well if the OP doesn't want to have the page refresh then all they
need do is disable Javascript.

> | And no, you can not do that with just HTML.

The point is that you don't need Javascript at all to do the refresh.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173911 is a reply to message #173908] Thu, 12 May 2011 06:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 5/12/2011 2:09 AM, Jeff North wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 04:35:51 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> <7m4s98-8i8(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> | Jeff North<jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> |> On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>
> [snip]
>
>> | If you read all the posts, you will see that he posted a link to the site
>> | in question.
>
> Not all posts come through and NO I did not get that posting.
>
>> | I accessed the site with Firebug turned on and watched all the javascript
>> | download and the timers reset as I moved the mouse.
>
> Lucky you.
>

You need to get a better news host then.

>> | So, for the site in question:
>> |
>> | Yes, it uses javascript.
>> |
>> | Yes, it uses javascript timers to see if there is any mouse movement.
>
> Well if the OP doesn't want to have the page refresh then all they
> need do is disable Javascript.
>
>> | And no, you can not do that with just HTML.
>
> The point is that you don't need Javascript at all to do the refresh.

The question was not about refreshing. It was about detecting mouse
movement - like the subject says.

Let's see you do it in just html.

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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173916 is a reply to message #173908] Thu, 12 May 2011 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 04:35:51 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> <7m4s98-8i8(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | > On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>
> [snip]
>
>> | If you read all the posts, you will see that he posted a link to the site
>> | in question.
>
> Not all posts come through and NO I did not get that posting.
>
>> | I accessed the site with Firebug turned on and watched all the javascript
>> | download and the timers reset as I moved the mouse.
>
> Lucky you.

Or knowing what I am doing me with a javascript debugger installed in my
web browser.

>> | So, for the site in question:
>> |
>> | Yes, it uses javascript.
>> |
>> | Yes, it uses javascript timers to see if there is any mouse movement.
>
> Well if the OP doesn't want to have the page refresh then all they
> need do is disable Javascript.
>
>> | And no, you can not do that with just HTML.
>
> The point is that you don't need Javascript at all to do the refresh.

Depends on what you mean by "refresh".

If by "refresh" you mean some amount of time has passed and you have neither
clicked anything on the page nor navigated away from the page, yes you can
do that in HTML.

I've said that several times now.

The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting, which means
javascript.



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Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173919 is a reply to message #173911] Thu, 12 May 2011 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Thu, 12 May 2011 06:52:13 -0400, in comp.lang.php Jerry Stuckle
<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net>
<iqge4u$aa3$1(at)dont-email(dot)me> wrote:

> | On 5/12/2011 2:09 AM, Jeff North wrote:
> | > On Thu, 12 May 2011 04:35:51 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> | > <7m4s98-8i8(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
> | >
> | >> | Jeff North<jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | >> |> On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | >
> | > [snip]
> | >
> | >> | If you read all the posts, you will see that he posted a link to the site
> | >> | in question.
> | >
> | > Not all posts come through and NO I did not get that posting.
> | >
> | >> | I accessed the site with Firebug turned on and watched all the javascript
> | >> | download and the timers reset as I moved the mouse.
> | >
> | > Lucky you.
> | >
> |
> | You need to get a better news host then.

It picks up all your crap postings.

> |
> | >> | So, for the site in question:
> | >> |
> | >> | Yes, it uses javascript.
> | >> |
> | >> | Yes, it uses javascript timers to see if there is any mouse movement.
> | >
> | > Well if the OP doesn't want to have the page refresh then all they
> | > need do is disable Javascript.
> | >
> | >> | And no, you can not do that with just HTML.
> | >
> | > The point is that you don't need Javascript at all to do the refresh.
> |
> | The question was not about refreshing. It was about detecting mouse
> | movement - like the subject says.
> |
> | Let's see you do it in just html.

Please show me where I have stated that html could detect mouse
movement.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173920 is a reply to message #173916] Thu, 12 May 2011 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:12:19 -0000, in comp.lang.php
jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
<3gdt98-u0e(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:

> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | > On Thu, 12 May 2011 04:35:51 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> | > <7m4s98-8i8(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
> | >
> | >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | >>| > On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | >
> | > [snip]
> | >
> | >>| If you read all the posts, you will see that he posted a link to the site
> | >>| in question.
> | >
> | > Not all posts come through and NO I did not get that posting.
> | >
> | >>| I accessed the site with Firebug turned on and watched all the javascript
> | >>| download and the timers reset as I moved the mouse.
> | >
> | > Lucky you.
> |
> | Or knowing what I am doing me with a javascript debugger installed in my
> | web browser.

I'm impressed - not.

> | >>| So, for the site in question:
> | >>|
> | >>| Yes, it uses javascript.
> | >>|
> | >>| Yes, it uses javascript timers to see if there is any mouse movement.
> | >
> | > Well if the OP doesn't want to have the page refresh then all they
> | > need do is disable Javascript.
> | >
> | >>| And no, you can not do that with just HTML.
> | >
> | > The point is that you don't need Javascript at all to do the refresh.
> |
> | Depends on what you mean by "refresh".

Oh here we go - playing the semantics game.

> | If by "refresh" you mean some amount of time has passed and you have neither
> | clicked anything on the page nor navigated away from the page

The former is refresh, the later is redirect (to be semantically
correct).

> | , yes you can do that in HTML.
> |
> | I've said that several times now.
> |
> | The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
> | way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting,

The part you can't seem to grasp is that I am highlighting that there
is an alternative method of doing a page refresh/redirect *without*
the need for a scripting language (which may or may not be disabled /
unknown to the browser).

> | which means javascript.

To be semantically correct - there is also the non-standard VBScript
or the much lesser known language TCL
(http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-script-970314 circa 1998).
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173921 is a reply to message #173920] Thu, 12 May 2011 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:12:19 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> <3gdt98-u0e(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | > On Thu, 12 May 2011 04:35:51 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
>> | > <7m4s98-8i8(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>> | >
>> | >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | >>| > On Wed, 11 May 2011 16:53:54 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>> | >
>> | > [snip]
>> | >
>> | >>| If you read all the posts, you will see that he posted a link to the site
>> | >>| in question.
>> | >
>> | > Not all posts come through and NO I did not get that posting.
>> | >
>> | >>| I accessed the site with Firebug turned on and watched all the javascript
>> | >>| download and the timers reset as I moved the mouse.
>> | >
>> | > Lucky you.
>> |
>> | Or knowing what I am doing me with a javascript debugger installed in my
>> | web browser.
>
> I'm impressed - not.

Who cares?

>> | >>| So, for the site in question:
>> | >>|
>> | >>| Yes, it uses javascript.
>> | >>|
>> | >>| Yes, it uses javascript timers to see if there is any mouse movement.
>> | >
>> | > Well if the OP doesn't want to have the page refresh then all they
>> | > need do is disable Javascript.
>> | >
>> | >>| And no, you can not do that with just HTML.
>> | >
>> | > The point is that you don't need Javascript at all to do the refresh.
>> |
>> | Depends on what you mean by "refresh".
>
> Oh here we go - playing the semantics game.
>
>> | If by "refresh" you mean some amount of time has passed and you have neither
>> | clicked anything on the page nor navigated away from the page
>
> The former is refresh, the later is redirect (to be semantically
> correct).

There is no former or latter; it is one set of conditions with an "and"
and a "nor" in there, i.e. if (A AND NOT B AND NOT C).

So, is <meta http-equiv="refresh" to the exact same page a "refresh" or
a "redirect" semantically speaking?


>> | , yes you can do that in HTML.
>> |
>> | I've said that several times now.
>> |
>> | The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
>> | way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting,
>
> The part you can't seem to grasp is that I am highlighting that there
> is an alternative method of doing a page refresh/redirect *without*
> the need for a scripting language (which may or may not be disabled /
> unknown to the browser).

The part you can't seem to grasp is that the subject of the post is
mouse movement detection, not "page refresh/redirect".

>> | which means javascript.
>
> To be semantically correct - there is also the non-standard VBScript
> or the much lesser known language TCL
> (http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-script-970314 circa 1998).

If I add "for all practical purposes" between the words "means" and
"javascript" would that make you happy?

I originally was going to do that but left it out thinking no one could
be that anal retentive.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173924 is a reply to message #173921] Thu, 12 May 2011 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:05:38 -0000, in comp.lang.php
jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
<i62u98-utj(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:

> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | > On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:12:19 -0000, in comp.lang.php

[snip]

> | So, is <meta http-equiv="refresh" to the exact same page a "refresh" or
> | a "redirect" semantically speaking?

Neither - your statement is syntactically incorrect.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/meta.http-equiv.refresh.html
If you look at the above web site it will teach you the correct markup
required and answer your question.

> | >>| , yes you can do that in HTML.
> | >>|
> | >>| I've said that several times now.
> | >>|
> | >>| The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
> | >>| way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting,
> | >
> | > The part you can't seem to grasp is that I am highlighting that there
> | > is an alternative method of doing a page refresh/redirect *without*
> | > the need for a scripting language (which may or may not be disabled /
> | > unknown to the browser).
> |
> | The part you can't seem to grasp is that the subject of the post is
> | mouse movement detection, not "page refresh/redirect".

Did you miss this part of the OP posting?
"I had left a web site page open all night and in the morning found I
had been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle
for 10 minutes."

> | >>| which means javascript.
> | >
> | > To be semantically correct - there is also the non-standard VBScript
> | > or the much lesser known language TCL
> | > (http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-script-970314 circa 1998).
> |
> | If I add "for all practical purposes" between the words "means" and
> | "javascript" would that make you happy?
> |
> | I originally was going to do that but left it out thinking no one could
> | be that anal retentive.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173925 is a reply to message #173924] Thu, 12 May 2011 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimp is currently offline  jimp
Messages: 22
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Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:05:38 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> <i62u98-utj(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | > On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:12:19 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>
> [snip]
>
>> | So, is <meta http-equiv="refresh" to the exact same page a "refresh" or
>> | a "redirect" semantically speaking?
>
> Neither - your statement is syntactically incorrect.

So what is "syntactically incorrect" as it is obviously an incomplete
example of a meta refresh tag?

Did I mispell "meta" or "refresh"?

> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/meta.http-equiv.refresh.html
> If you look at the above web site it will teach you the correct markup
> required and answer your question.
>
>> | >>| , yes you can do that in HTML.
>> | >>|
>> | >>| I've said that several times now.
>> | >>|
>> | >>| The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
>> | >>| way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting,
>> | >
>> | > The part you can't seem to grasp is that I am highlighting that there
>> | > is an alternative method of doing a page refresh/redirect *without*
>> | > the need for a scripting language (which may or may not be disabled /
>> | > unknown to the browser).
>> |
>> | The part you can't seem to grasp is that the subject of the post is
>> | mouse movement detection, not "page refresh/redirect".
>
> Did you miss this part of the OP posting?
> "I had left a web site page open all night and in the morning found I
> had been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle
> for 10 minutes."

Nope, nor did I miss the sentence immediately before it:

"Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
detecting mouse movement."

To summarize, the Subject of the post is "mouse movement detection".

The first sentence of the post expicitly asks about "a method of detecting
mouse movement".

It would seem to be pretty clear that the thing of interest to the poster
is "mouse movement detection".



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173927 is a reply to message #173925] Fri, 13 May 2011 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Fri, 13 May 2011 00:56:59 -0000, in comp.lang.php
jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
<r7cu98-98l(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:

> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | > On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:05:38 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> | > <i62u98-utj(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
> | >
> | >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | >>| > On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:12:19 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | >
> | > [snip]
> | >
> | >>| So, is <meta http-equiv="refresh" to the exact same page a "refresh" or
> | >>| a "redirect" semantically speaking?
> | >
> | > Neither - your statement is syntactically incorrect.
> |
> | So what is "syntactically incorrect" as it is obviously an incomplete
> | example of a meta refresh tag?
> |
> | Did I mispell "meta" or "refresh"?

If you understood the tag and its attributes you wouldn't have asked
such an inane question.

> | > http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/meta.http-equiv.refresh.html
> | > If you look at the above web site it will teach you the correct markup
> | > required and answer your question.
> | >
> | >>| >>| , yes you can do that in HTML.
> | >>| >>|
> | >>| >>| I've said that several times now.
> | >>| >>|
> | >>| >>| The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
> | >>| >>| way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting,
> | >>| >
> | >>| > The part you can't seem to grasp is that I am highlighting that there
> | >>| > is an alternative method of doing a page refresh/redirect *without*
> | >>| > the need for a scripting language (which may or may not be disabled /
> | >>| > unknown to the browser).
> | >>|
> | >>| The part you can't seem to grasp is that the subject of the post is
> | >>| mouse movement detection, not "page refresh/redirect".
> | >
> | > Did you miss this part of the OP posting?
> | > "I had left a web site page open all night and in the morning found I
> | > had been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle
> | > for 10 minutes."
> |
> | Nope, nor did I miss the sentence immediately before it:
> |
> | "Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> | detecting mouse movement."
> |
> | To summarize, the Subject of the post is "mouse movement detection".
> |
> | The first sentence of the post expicitly asks about "a method of detecting
> | mouse movement".
> |
> | It would seem to be pretty clear that the thing of interest to the poster
> | is "mouse movement detection".

In that case, the message is completely off-topic in a PHP group and
should be treated as such.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173937 is a reply to message #173927] Fri, 13 May 2011 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2011 00:56:59 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> <r7cu98-98l(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | > On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:05:38 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
>> | > <i62u98-utj(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
>> | >
>> | >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
>> | >>| > On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:12:19 -0000, in comp.lang.php
>> | >
>> | > [snip]
>> | >
>> | >>| So, is <meta http-equiv="refresh" to the exact same page a "refresh" or
>> | >>| a "redirect" semantically speaking?
>> | >
>> | > Neither - your statement is syntactically incorrect.
>> |
>> | So what is "syntactically incorrect" as it is obviously an incomplete
>> | example of a meta refresh tag?
>> |
>> | Did I mispell "meta" or "refresh"?
>
> If you understood the tag and its attributes you wouldn't have asked
> such an inane question.

Blithering nonsense.

It is common practice when providing an example of something to just quote
the relevent part, which in this case is the meta tag up to the refresh
attribute.

I repeat, what is "syntactically incorrect" as you claim for the example
fragment?

>> | > http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/meta.http-equiv.refresh.html
>> | > If you look at the above web site it will teach you the correct markup
>> | > required and answer your question.
>> | >
>> | >>| >>| , yes you can do that in HTML.
>> | >>| >>|
>> | >>| >>| I've said that several times now.
>> | >>| >>|
>> | >>| >>| The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
>> | >>| >>| way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting,
>> | >>| >
>> | >>| > The part you can't seem to grasp is that I am highlighting that there
>> | >>| > is an alternative method of doing a page refresh/redirect *without*
>> | >>| > the need for a scripting language (which may or may not be disabled /
>> | >>| > unknown to the browser).
>> | >>|
>> | >>| The part you can't seem to grasp is that the subject of the post is
>> | >>| mouse movement detection, not "page refresh/redirect".
>> | >
>> | > Did you miss this part of the OP posting?
>> | > "I had left a web site page open all night and in the morning found I
>> | > had been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle
>> | > for 10 minutes."
>> |
>> | Nope, nor did I miss the sentence immediately before it:
>> |
>> | "Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>> | detecting mouse movement."
>> |
>> | To summarize, the Subject of the post is "mouse movement detection".
>> |
>> | The first sentence of the post expicitly asks about "a method of detecting
>> | mouse movement".
>> |
>> | It would seem to be pretty clear that the thing of interest to the poster
>> | is "mouse movement detection".
>
> In that case, the message is completely off-topic in a PHP group and
> should be treated as such.

Perhaps you should learn to read as the very first sentence asks the quite
clear multipart question "... if PHP, or other script language ..." which
makes the post about the capability of PHP.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Re: mouse movement detection? [message #173946 is a reply to message #173937] Fri, 13 May 2011 20:01 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Jeff North is currently offline  Jeff North
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On Fri, 13 May 2011 15:36:55 -0000, in comp.lang.php
jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
<npvv98-m7s(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:

> | Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | > On Fri, 13 May 2011 00:56:59 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> | > <r7cu98-98l(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
> | >
> | >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | >>| > On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:05:38 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | >>| > jimp(at)specsol(dot)spam(dot)sux(dot)com
> | >>| > <i62u98-utj(dot)ln1(at)mail(dot)specsol(dot)com> wrote:
> | >>| >
> | >>| >>| Jeff North <jnorthau(at)yahoo(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:
> | >>| >>| > On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:12:19 -0000, in comp.lang.php
> | >>| >
> | >>| > [snip]
> | >>| >
> | >>| >>| So, is <meta http-equiv="refresh" to the exact same page a "refresh" or
> | >>| >>| a "redirect" semantically speaking?
> | >>| >
> | >>| > Neither - your statement is syntactically incorrect.
> | >>|
> | >>| So what is "syntactically incorrect" as it is obviously an incomplete
> | >>| example of a meta refresh tag?
> | >>|
> | >>| Did I mispell "meta" or "refresh"?
> | >
> | > If you understood the tag and its attributes you wouldn't have asked
> | > such an inane question.
> |
> | Blithering nonsense.
> |
> | It is common practice when providing an example of something to just quote
> | the relevent part, which in this case is the meta tag up to the refresh
> | attribute.

If you understood the tag and it's attributes then you would have
quoted the entire tag when asking the question "So, is <meta
http-equiv="refresh" to the exact same page a "refresh" or
"redirect" semantically speaking?"

<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="2"> would "reload the current
page" or do a page refresh.

<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="2;url=page1.html"> would "load a
different page" or redirect.

Now can you see why your original question could not be answered?

> | I repeat, what is "syntactically incorrect" as you claim for the example
> | fragment?
> |
> | >>| > http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/meta.http-equiv.refresh.html
> | >>| > If you look at the above web site it will teach you the correct markup
> | >>| > required and answer your question.
> | >>| >
> | >>| >>| >>| , yes you can do that in HTML.
> | >>| >>| >>|
> | >>| >>| >>| I've said that several times now.
> | >>| >>| >>|
> | >>| >>| >>| The part you keep ignoring is the issue of mouse movement and the only
> | >>| >>| >>| way you can detect mouse movement is client side scripting,
> | >>| >>| >
> | >>| >>| > The part you can't seem to grasp is that I am highlighting that there
> | >>| >>| > is an alternative method of doing a page refresh/redirect *without*
> | >>| >>| > the need for a scripting language (which may or may not be disabled /
> | >>| >>| > unknown to the browser).
> | >>| >>|
> | >>| >>| The part you can't seem to grasp is that the subject of the post is
> | >>| >>| mouse movement detection, not "page refresh/redirect".
> | >>| >
> | >>| > Did you miss this part of the OP posting?
> | >>| > "I had left a web site page open all night and in the morning found I
> | >>| > had been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle
> | >>| > for 10 minutes."
> | >>|
> | >>| Nope, nor did I miss the sentence immediately before it:
> | >>|
> | >>| "Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> | >>| detecting mouse movement."
> | >>|
> | >>| To summarize, the Subject of the post is "mouse movement detection".
> | >>|
> | >>| The first sentence of the post expicitly asks about "a method of detecting
> | >>| mouse movement".
> | >>|
> | >>| It would seem to be pretty clear that the thing of interest to the poster
> | >>| is "mouse movement detection".
> | >
> | > In that case, the message is completely off-topic in a PHP group and
> | > should be treated as such.
> |
> | Perhaps you should learn to read as the very first sentence asks the quite
> | clear multipart question "... if PHP, or other script language ..." which
> | makes the post about the capability of PHP.

Are you saying the PHP can be used to detect mouse movement on a web
page?
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