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Lightweight MVC framework [message #182834] Tue, 17 September 2013 20:25 Go to next message
Andreas Ecaz is currently offline  Andreas Ecaz
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I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).

Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.

Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182841 is a reply to message #182834] Wed, 18 September 2013 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T0xicCode is currently offline  T0xicCode
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On 13-09-17 08:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".

While it's not exactly what you asked, most MVC frameworks (at least
CakePHP, last I tried), supported being run completely from inside the
/www folder. They used URLS like
'web.host/index.php/Controller/Action/?other=args

However, depending on the size of your client's projected website, a
full MVC might be too much.

--
--------
T0xicCode
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182842 is a reply to message #182834] Wed, 18 September 2013 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Christoph Michael Bec is currently offline  Christoph Michael Bec
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Andreas Ecaz wrote:

> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks.

You may consider using a CMS--setting up a personal website might be
done in a few hours.

--
Christoph M. Becker
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182843 is a reply to message #182834] Wed, 18 September 2013 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel Pitts is currently offline  Daniel Pitts
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On 9/17/13 5:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>

I'm liking Symfony 2, we're using it for work. I wouldn't say its
'lightweight', but what does lightweight really buy you in this case?

I kind of think "framework" is the opposite of "lightweight" ;-)
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182844 is a reply to message #182834] Wed, 18 September 2013 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bill is currently offline  bill
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On 2013-09-17 8:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted

to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure"

PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder
and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a
lightweight
MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't
feel like
hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.

I doubt the client would be very happy with that either, especially if
he's not good at
doing websites on his own.

>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC
framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC
approach
since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>

Hmm, don't really see that as much of a problem: Just make it a flat
file structure, which is apparently all they'll offer; not unusual.
It'll work fine and I doubt such a site would get very large anyway as
they're often limited to pretty small disc appropriations and traffic. I
know a few who have some fairly large sites in a flat structure. Else
perhaps convince him to pay for site space; it's not very expensive at
all these days.

(IMO) you're a little iffy about giving the customer what he wants,
which is going to be something simple and easy to maintain. Perhaps you
should recommend someone who would be happier to work with him.
In addition, you really should set your mail client so the lines
have a finite length instead of just all one line.

Twayne`
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182845 is a reply to message #182843] Wed, 18 September 2013 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bill is currently offline  bill
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On 2013-09-18 7:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 9/17/13 5:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
>> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And
>> I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even
>> though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>>
>> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www
>> folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm
>> looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS
>> "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just
>> to get it to work.
>>
>> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC
>> framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC
>> approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>>
>
> I'm liking Symfony 2, we're using it for work. I wouldn't say its
> 'lightweight', but what does lightweight really buy you in this case?
>
> I kind of think "framework" is the opposite of "lightweight" ;-)
>

I'd agree with that. Besides, since no parameters of the site were
given, a basic website shouldn't take more than a couple days to put
together anyway. Even if there's a guestbook or e-mail form they're
pretty standard and PHP makes short work of protecting them without
much fuss. Assuming 8 to 10 hr days, that is.
There aren't enough details about the mystery site to say much of
anything else, IMO.

Twayne`
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182846 is a reply to message #182845] Wed, 18 September 2013 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fiver is currently offline  Fiver
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On 2013-09-19 01:37, Twayne wrote:
> Even if there's a guestbook or e-mail form they're pretty standard
> and PHP makes short work of protecting them without much fuss.

News to me.

(skipping further sarcastic comments on PHP's imaginary built-in
protection features for forums and e-mail forms)


On the topic of frameworks, I've recently had a chance to use Nette:
<http://nette.org/>. Very well designed, IMHO, if you're using PHP 5.4+.
For a framework, it's light enough and doesn't get in your way. The
documentation is still somewhat lacking - part of it is in Czech,
apparently. It's also not suited for what the OP had in mind, but still
a surprisingly pleasant way to do MVC in PHP. One d isadvantage (in my
opinion) is that it uses a custom config file format.

regards,
5er
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182847 is a reply to message #182834] Thu, 19 September 2013 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erwin Moller is currently offline  Erwin Moller
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On 9/18/2013 2:25 AM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>


You won't master a MVC framework in a week or so, if it is new for you.
Yes, the idea is simple and clean, but actually using some MVC framework
means learning a lot, mainly the API and the way things are done.
All things you can do now in "pure PHP" easily, will be different.

So unless you LIKE to learn MVC, I would advice against it for a simple
website, since you are already an able programmer, as you claim.

My experience with MVC is limited to some projects in Java, and for PHP
only Cake and codeigniter.

My personal impression about the latter 2:
- Cake is very strict: I hate their straight jacket approach, and
stopped using it.
- Codeigniter is much more lenient: you can USE the framework when you
feel the need, but you can skip it as easily too.

I hope this helps you decide.

Regards,
Erwin Moller


--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
Re: Lightweight MVC framework [message #182849 is a reply to message #182846] Thu, 19 September 2013 12:21 Go to previous message
bill is currently offline  bill
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On 2013-09-18 9:06 PM, Fiver wrote:
> On 2013-09-19 01:37, Twayne wrote:
>> Even if there's a guestbook or e-mail form they're pretty standard
>> and PHP makes short work of protecting them without much fuss.
>
> News to me.
>
> (skipping further sarcastic comments on PHP's imaginary built-in
> protection features for forums and e-mail forms)
>
>
> On the topic of frameworks, I've recently had a chance to use Nette:
> <http://nette.org/>. Very well designed, IMHO, if you're using PHP 5.4+.
> For a framework, it's light enough and doesn't get in your way. The
> documentation is still somewhat lacking - part of it is in Czech,
> apparently. It's also not suited for what the OP had in mind, but still
> a surprisingly pleasant way to do MVC in PHP. One d isadvantage (in my
> opinion) is that it uses a custom config file format.
>
> regards,
> 5er
>

Yeah, no serious argument from here. But as I surmised earlier, 'There
aren't enough details about the mystery site to say much of anything
else, IMO.' And in general PHP can do an excellent job of at least
making sure nothing untoward gets thru the form. Although there is no
such thing as perfect security PHP can do a fair job of making it not
worth their while in most cases. Finger-printing frameworks et al on the
other hand is questionably better and certainly worth knowing about but
most of my research has found several reputable sites that state it's
not what it's cracked up to be.
Each to his own opinion of course, and I've no objection to your
disagreeing with me; but for now at least, it's a back-burner thing and
it's being figured out rather easily by some of the newer miscreant's
applications.
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