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FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31750] Tue, 16 May 2006 09:03 Go to next message
Ilia is currently offline  Ilia   Canada
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Here goes RC2 of FUDforum 2.7.5, the release is a little sooner then expected but there were a few annoying bugs in RC1 that I wanted to have resolved as soon as possible.

The changes found in this release are as follows:
  1. On the tree view update the read/unread icon when changing messages.
  2. Rename FAQ to Help
  3. Display success message on password reset.
  4. Make sorting by message start from descending order on the user list.
  5. Make list maker for message posting be based on JavaScript (much faster)
  6. Fixed smiley insertion from the "all smileys" pop-up window for Safari
  7. JavaScript cleanup (removed dead code and simplified existing one).
  8. Fixed tree view for IE
  9. Fixed archive reading bit for installer and upgrade script on PHP 5.1.0+
  10. Fixed a possible query failure when moving a topic from and to the same forum
  11. Fixed problem caused by partial page loading on the post page.


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Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31761 is a reply to message #31750] Wed, 17 May 2006 00:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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Ilia wrote on Tue, 16 May 2006 06:03


Rename FAQ to Help



Are you sure this is a good idea? It is in a FAQ format with questions and answers. Also, I've written my own help file and added a "Help" link (using the show template). If I install this upgrade, I would have to un-do this part.

I, for one, would prefer it be left as "FAQ".

...Bob
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31763 is a reply to message #31761] Wed, 17 May 2006 01:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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It is "Help" in a FAQ format. Problem is that non-technical users generally don't know what a FAQ is.

Anyway, it is easy to change the wording in the msg file (FUDdata/thm/default/i18n/english/msg) if you want to change it back.
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31783 is a reply to message #31763] Wed, 17 May 2006 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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naudefj wrote on Tue, 16 May 2006 22:52

It is "Help" in a FAQ format. Problem is that non-technical users generally don't know what a FAQ is.


If it's in a FAQ format, it's a FAQ. FAQs are among the most common things on the Internet. Anyone who doesn't know what a FAQ is probably shouldn't be trying to use web forums.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how this is an improvement. Have there been requests to make this change? If not, then why change it? It just makes no sense to me.

[Updated on: Mon, 22 May 2006 16:21]

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Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31796 is a reply to message #31750] Thu, 18 May 2006 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JamesS is currently offline  JamesS   United States
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It is a very good change. Most users don't think to look for answers in a FAQ list (I know, but it is true). Changing to "Help" gives the user a clue.
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31798 is a reply to message #31796] Thu, 18 May 2006 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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JamesS wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 11:26

It is a very good change. Most users don't think to look for answers in a FAQ list (I know, but it is true). Changing to "Help" gives the user a clue.


I've been creating web sites for 12 years. I've always had FAQs on them. To my knowledge, the terminology has never confused anyone. My users are not that clueless.

But fine, I just will not do the upgrade. I haven't done one since version 2.7.1. Why? Because it means hours of work. I've done a lot of modifications, and I have to re-do each and every one if I upgrade the software. I have to go back and forth between the backup directory and my list of mods to see if I can just upload my modified file or if I have to edit that file again if it's been changed. I have to do this with EVERY file that's either on my list or in the backup directory. I also have to re-upload all the icons I've replaced. It's a huge pain, and the risk of breaking something in the process is great.

It's just not worth it.

[Updated on: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:03]

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icon7.gif  Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31836 is a reply to message #31796] Fri, 19 May 2006 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
prodos is currently offline  prodos   Australia
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JamesS wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 04:26

It is a very good change. Most users don't think to look for answers in a FAQ list (I know, but it is true). Changing to "Help" gives the user a clue.


I think this would be a useful change.

I know that many people do understand what FAQ means. But these people are not disadvantaged by changing the term from "FAQ" to "Help".

Of course, another alternative is to change the term to "Help/FAQ" but I think just "Help" is adequate.

Those of us who are very familiar with using the web can often forget how confusing some of the commonly used terminology can be for newbies.

Even the term "Register" can be confusing. It is unclear for some because they confuse it with "Login". I have changed "Register" on several of my FUDForum message boards to read "Register/Join".

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Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31837 is a reply to message #31836] Fri, 19 May 2006 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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prodos wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 17:29


I think this would be a useful change.

I know that many people do understand what FAQ means. But these people are not disadvantaged by changing the term from "FAQ" to "Help".

Of course, another alternative is to change the term to "Help/FAQ" but I think just "Help" is adequate.

Those of us who are very familiar with using the web can often forget how confusing some of the commonly used terminology can be for newbies.

Even the term "Register" can be confusing. It is unclear for some because they confuse it with "Login". I have changed "Register" on several of my FUDForum message boards to read "Register/Join".



It's impossible to completely idiot-proof anything on the Internet.

I do use classified software that has "FAQ/Help" as the link. This might be the best way to go here.

I've argued this point enough. It makes no sense to me, but do what you think is best. I won't be changing mine. There's an old American saying that goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[Updated on: Fri, 19 May 2006 21:19]

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Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31838 is a reply to message #31750] Fri, 19 May 2006 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JamesS is currently offline  JamesS   United States
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It also makes better UI sense. When you want to know something about a feature of something like Word you don't click on the "FAQ" menu do you?
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31839 is a reply to message #31838] Fri, 19 May 2006 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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JamesS wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 18:21

It also makes better UI sense. When you want to know something about a feature of something like Word you don't click on the "FAQ" menu do you?


No, because there isn't one.

To me, FAQ and Help are two different things with different meanings. Help implies a set of instructions or tips for use, while FAQ implies exactly what it is, answers to Frequently Asked Questions. As I said in my first post on this, I wrote my own Help file which is actually a Help file. A FAQ by any other name is still a FAQ. Calling it something else is misleading, in my opinion. Won't this cause confusion rather than alleviate it? Experience users know the difference. What about them, the majority of users?

Wouldn't it be better to add a Help file instead of calling a FAQ a Help file? If someone want to know how to use the forum, they'd go to the Help file. If they have questions, they go to the FAQ.

Another thing I've done was to create a "Web Forum How-To" forum. It has topics on the basics of forum use, like posting, replying, quoting, uploading files, attachments, etc. Then, if something new comes up, it's very easy for me to add a topic. If someone has a problem that's addressed in that forum, I just point them to it. Works great for me.

[Updated on: Fri, 19 May 2006 22:15]

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Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31840 is a reply to message #31839] Fri, 19 May 2006 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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If you really want to reduce confusion for users, how about starting with Select Notification By Default? It's on by default when a new user registers. One has to know what it is and delibrately turn it off. Most new users seem to overlook that option in the registration form. Then they start posting/replying to various topics, start receiving notification e-mails and wonder why. Some reply to the e-mails thinking they're replying to the topic. This is confusing to experienced users as well as novices. It should be off by default. It's a common problem.

The term "UserCP" confuses many people.

I could go on. The term "FAQ" is way, way down the list of confusing terms and features.
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31841 is a reply to message #31840] Fri, 19 May 2006 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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I've been asking around, talking to at least somewhat experienced Internet users, some more experienced than others. Every single one understands "FAQ" and "Help" to be two different things, knows the difference and EXPECTS a difference. I still think changing it would cause confusion for the majority of users.

I also asked people if they could figure out what "UserCP" means. There were some wild guesses, but "User Control Panel" was not one of them. Not a single person got that one.

Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31842 is a reply to message #31841] Fri, 19 May 2006 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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In closing, I'd suggest trying my "Web Forum How-To" forum idea, but call it "Help" instead. In fact, I think I'll rename mine has "Help" and add the contents of my help file to it as topics. It's a really easy way to build a real help file and the topic structure is perfect for it.

But a FAQ is a FAQ.
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31843 is a reply to message #31750] Sat, 20 May 2006 00:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JamesS is currently offline  JamesS   United States
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Since you are still going on about it...

FAQ and Help are essentially synonomous in this situation. However, context plays a big factor. On most websites that have a forum a FAQ is already available that deals with questions asked about the site or the companies business. When confronted with two FAQ links, which one should the user click on? It wouldn't make sense for the site to rename their "FAQ" link to "Help" because that isn't what their FAQ is. Their FAQ is literally a list of frequently asked questions. The forum's "FAQ," or "Help," link is about how to use the forum and what does what. It is written in a FAQ form, but it is essentially a help "file" for the forum software. But "FAQ" does not impart that, it imparts something different (whether you agree or not).

Now, you seem to have taken offense to this way of thinking because you don't like that you would have to change yet one more thing if you decided to upgrade your forum. I agree that "User CP" can be ambiguous. Especially if you ask someone to guess its meaning without context. But you could suggest it be changed in a little less arrogant manner.

[Updated on: Sat, 20 May 2006 00:06]

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Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31844 is a reply to message #31843] Sat, 20 May 2006 00:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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JamesS wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 21:06

Since you are still going on about it...

FAQ and Help are essentially synonomous in this situation. However, context plays a big factor. On most websites that have a forum a FAQ is already available that deals with questions asked about the site or the companies business. When confronted with two FAQ links, which one should the user click on? It wouldn't make sense for the site to rename their "FAQ" link to "Help" because that isn't what their FAQ is. Their FAQ is literally a list of frequently asked questions. The forum's "FAQ," or "Help," link is about how to use the forum and what does what. It is written in a FAQ form, but it is essentially a help "file" for the forum software. But "FAQ" does not impart that, it imparts something different (whether you agree or not).

Now, you seem to have taken offense to this way of thinking because you don't like that you would have to change yet one more thing if you decided to upgrade your forum. I agree that "User CP" can be ambiguous. Especially if you ask someone to guess its meaning without context. But you could suggest it be changed in a little less arrogant manner.


You can please dispense with the personal insults. It is uncalled for.

You assume I asked about UserCP in no context, but you are wrong in that assumption. I explained the exact context.

I am not taking offense, I'm only suggesting that this is a very bad idea. If you like it, fine, go with it. Good luck.
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31890 is a reply to message #31844] Mon, 22 May 2006 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
geekmug is currently offline  geekmug   United States
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BobB wrote on Sat, 20 May 2006 00:16

You can please dispense with the personal insults. It is uncalled for.


As far as I can tell, your complaint is your personal opinion. You have a page, and you want it to be a certain way. How much more personal could that be?

I like "Help" better than "FAQ". I also like "Settings" better than "User CP".
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31892 is a reply to message #31890] Mon, 22 May 2006 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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I would definitely vote for changing "User CP" to "Settings" as well.

Ilia, what do you think?
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31893 is a reply to message #31892] Mon, 22 May 2006 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobB is currently offline  BobB   United States
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naudefj wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 11:03

I would definitely vote for changing "User CP" to "Settings" as well.



Using the Message Editor, you can change it to anything you like. It's "profile" under "tabs" and "profile" under "usercp.tmpl".
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31895 is a reply to message #31893] Mon, 22 May 2006 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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Thank you very much Bob Razz

Changing it is no big deal. Nevertheless, we should make it easier to understand and more user-friendly out of the box.
Re: FUDforum 2.7.5RC2 [message #31907 is a reply to message #31892] Tue, 23 May 2006 16:50 Go to previous message
Ilia is currently offline  Ilia   Canada
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Good idea, I've applied the change to CVS.

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