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Themes to include into next release [message #160340] Fri, 21 August 2009 10:56 Go to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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Hi,

I would like to include a new theme (maybe two) into the next release. Any nominations? My vote is Forest Green with one of The Witcher's green button sets.

What do you guys think?

Best regards.

Frank
icon6.gif  Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160341 is a reply to message #160340] Fri, 21 August 2009 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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I agree with including the Forest green theme, in my opinion it is the most legible of the new themes and fits well with FUDforum, with the Concord theme running a close second.

As for buttons I favor the colorized FUDforum version as shown here:
index.php?t=getfile&id=5705&private=0


"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160342 is a reply to message #160341] Sat, 22 August 2009 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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We need a better different name for the Concord theme to indicate it's a colour variation on the default. However, darkblue sounds a bit dull. Any suggestions?
icon6.gif  Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160343 is a reply to message #160342] Sat, 22 August 2009 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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After consulting with my local color expert (Wife) the recommendation is "Slate Blue" which works for me.

index.php?t=getfile&id=5706&private=0


We are after all simply offering the users an alternative color scheme for the default theme.


"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160344 is a reply to message #160343] Sun, 23 August 2009 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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Thanks. Both forestgreen and slateblue were committed with your English buttons.

Should we add buttons for the other supported languages as well (they are already available as a separate download)?
icon6.gif  Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160345 is a reply to message #160344] Sun, 23 August 2009 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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Absolutely, if it can be done like it is now with the single color theme and selectable languages! One of the great things about FUDforum is that it is pretty much an international forum software platform.

Case in point is users "beAst", "magli", "Grom", and many others who have posted here and displayed or shared their themes/forums; they all use FUDforum in their native languages and it should not be any more difficult for them to do so using the new color themes than absolutely necessary.

In my travels around the internet I have seen many FUDforum's using languages other than English, far more than PHBB, or VBulletin for example and that is something you definitely want to encourage.

And I will go you one better, if it were possible to enable the user to select the language the forum displays in (as opposed to the admin needing to create individual themes for each language to enable the user to do so) that would be great!



"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160346 is a reply to message #160345] Mon, 24 August 2009 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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OK, I'll include all languages will fully translated buttons. The rest will have to be translated before they can be included.

The Witcher wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 00:23
And I will go you one better, if it were possible to enable the user to select the language the forum displays in (as opposed to the admin needing to create individual themes for each language to enable the user to do so) that would be great!


It's already possible, the installer will ask for the default language. Multi-language support requires themes and optionally the theme router plugin.
icon6.gif  Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160347 is a reply to message #160346] Mon, 24 August 2009 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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Excellent! You're a good man naudefj (and a heck of a coder) I can only dream of knowing/doing as much as you do, but if there is anything I can help with let me know.

Like you said before we need a good book on "Taking the F.U.D. out of FUDforum"


"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160361 is a reply to message #160347] Wed, 26 August 2009 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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The Witcher wrote on Mon, 24 August 2009 14:45
but if there is anything I can help with let me know.


I would be great if you can compile a list of completely translated buttons that still needs to committed.
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160364 is a reply to message #160361] Thu, 27 August 2009 05:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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naudefj wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 10:58
<<Snip>>I would be great if you can compile a list of completely translated buttons that still needs to committed.


Ok, I will start tonight verifying and rechecking them all again, and make sure all the other files are included. I am assuming that you will want them in 3 separate files modeled after /FUDforum/thm/default/i18n ("default", "forest green" and "slate blue"), if not let me know how you want them.

If you need any of them converted from .GIF to .PNG let me know.

I can tell you Off hand that: The Indonesian, Korean, and Vietnamese are the only previously supported languages which I do NOT have an actual set of colorized buttons for, even though they have folders included in FUDforums i18n subdirectory containing charset,locale, msg, and/or pspell_lang files there is no "img" folder/subdirectory (vietnamese has neigther buttons or a pspell_lang file). No previous button images or translations for them are readily available for me to make colorized (or any other) versions from/with.

So you will need to decide how to handle them! My inclination is to include them without the buttons just as they were included in the older versions and 2.8.1, but that is a decision you need to make. I will make sets if someone comes up with the text translations (so far the only one I have is the Quick reply for korean = 빠른 답변).

czech, danish, indonesian, Japanese, korean, latvian, lithuanian, norwegian, portuguese, portuguese_br, romanian, slovak, swedish, and vietnamese have no associated help files/folder that was the way they were included in 2.8.1.

Bulgarian, Chinese, Finnish, and Turkish have no "pspell_lang" files, and I do not know if that makes any difference or not but that was the way they were included in 2.8.1 as well.


I did not receive a translation for "Quick Reply" in: Catalan, Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovak, or Turkish, even though they had all the other buttons available, so for them I used English "Quick Reply" buttons which I believe make a suitable and acceptable substitute. For that reason I concider them to be complete!


Esperanto is a special case, it is not included in FUDforums i18n (Never has been) although Tim did provide translations for the buttons, and I made a rough Esperanto set; however there are no associated charset,locale, msg, and/or pspell_lang or help files available yet as Tim is still in the process of translating them.

It would be my sugestion that Esperanto be included if the charset,locale, msg, and/or pspell_lang files are made available. In support of that I note again that FUDforum is pretty much an international forum software platform, and add that Esperanto is a widely spoken international Auxiliary language, used in "world travel, correspondence, cultural exchange, conventions, literature, language instruction, television, and radio broadcasting" etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto).

However once again the decision to include Esperanto or not is up to the Admins, at any rate it could be made available as an optional download.

Here is the short version breakdown:
afrikaans
bulgarian - no pspell_lang
catalan
chinese - no pspell_lang
czech - no help
danish - no help
dutch
english
finnish - no pspell_lang - no help
french
german
german_formal
indonesian - no buttons - no help
italian
Japanese - no help
korean - no buttons - no help
latvian - no help
lithuanian - no help
norwegian - no help
polish
portuguese - no help
portuguese_br - no help
romanian - no help
russian
slovak - no help
spanish
swedish - no help
turkish - no pspell_lang
vietnamese - no buttons - no pspell_lang - no help

This will take a few days, but I will get them.


"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160367 is a reply to message #160364] Thu, 27 August 2009 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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Wow, that's a thorough analysis of what needs to be done.

BTW: Themes without buttons or help files will use the English equivalents. We should actually define fall-back languages (we currently assume everything falls-back to English). However, it will probably have to wait for a release after the one we are busy preparing.

Thanks for helping to get this sorted!

Best regards.

Frank
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160387 is a reply to message #160367] Sat, 29 August 2009 03:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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naudefj wrote on Thu, 27 August 2009 14:21
BTW: Themes without buttons or help files will use the English equivalents. We should actually define fall-back languages (we currently assume everything falls-back to English). However, it will probably have to wait for a release after the one we are busy preparing.


Thanks, you are quite welcome.

I pretty much figured that everything not included in a theme "fell back" to the default (basically English) but that clarifies it somewhat,

Having thought about this, and worked with it some it occurs to me that there is more than one way around an obstacle.

I am a Forum user 1st and foremost and have no background or training in coding or programming, in fact up until 4 years ago I had no idea what went into running a forum beyond reading and posting on one occasionally. Like most computer users I depended entirely on people like you who have the knowledge and training I don't have; and I still depend on your sharing your knowledge to use the FUDforum software effectively.

And I am not alone in that, most people in my experience shy away from using FUDforum because they think it's too hard, they turn to phbb, vbulliton etc because it is familiar and there is plenty of help, information and add-ons readily available or for sale not because its better software.

This brings me back to language. You are right that "We should actually define fall-back languages" but why wait? Why not make it easier for less knowledgeable FUDforum admin types to define their own fallback language which best suits their needs?

If I understand it correctly the help files are pretty much interchangeable with a minimum of effort, simply copy the appropriate files from one language to the next. So why not provide some simple instructions on how to do so if it is feasible?

Japanese is a good example, where English is a good choice as a fall back language it has no help files of its own but in my experience English is widely taught in their schools and widely used among the general population.

However Slovak or Czech might benefit more by having Russian or Polish help files instead of English, Danish or Norwegian might benefit more from French or German help files etc. etc.

Or am I way off base and wrong about the whole concept?



"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160388 is a reply to message #160387] Sat, 29 August 2009 05:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
naudefj is currently offline  naudefj   South Africa
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You are spot on. The only obstacle is programing time. It generally takes much longer than what people think. For example, adding language fall-back cannot be implemented in a couple of hours. We are looking at days or weeks of programming to get it done. If we had more coders, it would be a breeze.

Currently I'm doing most of the coding, documentation and about everything else myself. This is not sustainable, and unless we get the community involved, this project is doomed to fail. So, you tell me, how do we get more contributors. The only alternative is to pay people to help out.
icon6.gif  Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160389 is a reply to message #160388] Sat, 29 August 2009 06:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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I have not the foggiest idea how to get people involved; there is no way to pay them enough. I can't code, can barely type, and I am still not sure enough about what little I do know to be certain a good portion of the time about what I try.

I have been trying for years to get people to help them selves... and they won't do it, and I'm talking about just posting and communicating with others..... Let alone coding or administering!

While I am working on these other language translations I will see if I can do some instructions that Admins can use to change their help files in their own themes.

As for failing, that is not an option! You have made great progress, and should be proud of what you have accomplished!

You may not believe, and you may not understand it but until this past June I had not seen most of what you had done prior to that time, and I still don't know exactly why!

For me it was as though it did not exist?

At any rate I still think "Taking the F.U.D. out of FUDforum" is a great idea maybe you should think about it!



"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"
Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160392 is a reply to message #160388] Sat, 29 August 2009 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   Canada
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Quote:
Currently I'm doing most of the coding, documentation and about everything else myself. This is not sustainable, and unless we get the community involved, this project doomed to fail. So, you tell me, how do we get more contributors.


Leadership times numbers. Justin Frankel at Cockos is a great model for how this works successfully.

All stuff you know already: people with coding skills are going to be a fairly fixed percentage of a community of this nature unless there's something particular that attracts a higher ratio. You do indeed see some of that percentage helping out here - JanRei for example - but naturally we need to get *more* folks.

OK, picking numbers out of the air, let's say the community's size is "X". "Y" percent are coders. A certain percentage ("Z") of that group of coders are going to have the time and the inclination to help. A community of 1000, 1% of which are coders, 30% of which are willing to help gives you - three helpers Very Happy

So also obvious stuff - things like good marketing and "idiot-proof" ease of use increase X. Great leadership (particularly combined with "a good cause") increases Y. Things that attract coders, and make FUDForum (dare I say?) "fun" to code for, increase Y and Z.

I doubt anybody could provide better leadership than you're doing, so that part of Z's pretty much maxed already.

So strategy involves increasing what we can -

- enlarge X, the user base. You're doing precisely the right things in terms of user-friendliness. Taking advantage of the "one click install" services like Simple Scripts will *definitely* help. And as for marketing, there's an ideal opportunity for folks that have no coding skills to help out.

- enlarge Y (and Z) the percentage of coders, by thinking about what would make FUDForum more attractive to them. I don't know, I have no coding skills - what would attract *you*, and what would attract more guys like JanRei? Making FUDAPI more fun or easy or powerful?

This is why I've mentioned Simple Scripts - that's how I got introduced into running a forum in the first place, the opportunity to install phpBB with one click. After I ran it for a while I found it unsatisfactory and resolved to dig deeper, which led me to FUDForum (and the worst, most inscrutable installation experience of my life - which thanks to your work is now a thing of the past). I'll be pursuing that shortly.

So basically you're doing all the right moves. We need to get those numbers up, but even non-coders can help there, so that might be a fruitful place to begin - finding a way to harness more "non-technical" volunteerism and put it to work boosting "X".

[Updated on: Sat, 29 August 2009 14:52]

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icon6.gif  Re: Themes to include into next release [message #160594 is a reply to message #160367] Sat, 03 October 2009 10:35 Go to previous message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher   United States
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All the languages have been assembled for Forest green and Slate blue, and are installed on the test site. Still having the same problem with the Slate blue version of Breton, and I still need input on why Esperanto's account setting block don't fill or work, msg column etc.

My notes are on the test site.
UPDATE: FIXED


"I'm a Witcher, I solve human problems; not always using a sword!"

[Updated on: Sat, 07 November 2009 09:22]

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