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Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172476] Sun, 20 February 2011 18:29 Go to next message
Sam Lowry is currently offline  Sam Lowry
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Hi All

I currently run about half a dozen sites (Most flat HTML, but a few use
PHP), I'm planning to add another three (PHP based) sites. I could just
stuck them with my current host, but thought I'd check with the guru's here
first.

None of the sites need a load of bandwidth, I just need PHP, and MySQL
databases. I'm in the UK if that is relevant.

Any recommendations for good reliable (and not too expensive) hosts?

While I'm here what about domain registration, I normally use Joker.

~S
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172478 is a reply to message #172476] Sun, 20 February 2011 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
P E Schoen is currently offline  P E Schoen
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"Sam Lowry" wrote in message
news:1o76pxekn4xpp(dot)dvv1kkowqwhx(dot)dlg(at)40tude(dot)net...

> Hi All

> I currently run about half a dozen sites (Most flat HTML,
> but a few use PHP), I'm planning to add another three
> (PHP based) sites. I could just stuck them with my current
> host, but thought I'd check with the guru's here first.

> None of the sites need a load of bandwidth, I just need
> PHP, and MySQL databases. I'm in the UK if that is relevant.

> Any recommendations for good reliable (and not too expensive) hosts?

I've been using www.dreamhost.com, and I've been very satisfied. It's about
$8/month.

> While I'm here what about domain registration, I normally use Joker.

I am using MyDomain.com, and they are OK, and reasonable at about $10/year.
But I have found some problems with their URL forwarding ("stealth" or
"masked"). Any other pages on the site, and even pages from other websites
via hyperlinks, show the same URL and title. See my post on
alt.www.webmaster.

Paul
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172481 is a reply to message #172476] Sun, 20 February 2011 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 2/20/2011 6:29 PM, Sam Lowry wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> I currently run about half a dozen sites (Most flat HTML, but a few use
> PHP), I'm planning to add another three (PHP based) sites. I could just
> stuck them with my current host, but thought I'd check with the guru's here
> first.
>
> None of the sites need a load of bandwidth, I just need PHP, and MySQL
> databases. I'm in the UK if that is relevant.
>
> Any recommendations for good reliable (and not too expensive) hosts?
>
> While I'm here what about domain registration, I normally use Joker.
>
> ~S

Try a group like alt.www.webmasters. You'll get better answers.

--
==================
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Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172488 is a reply to message #172476] Mon, 21 February 2011 04:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Natural Philosoph is currently offline  The Natural Philosoph
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Sam Lowry wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I currently run about half a dozen sites (Most flat HTML, but a few use
> PHP), I'm planning to add another three (PHP based) sites. I could just
> stuck them with my current host, but thought I'd check with the guru's here
> first.
>
> None of the sites need a load of bandwidth, I just need PHP, and MySQL
> databases. I'm in the UK if that is relevant.
>

Consider actually hosting it at the back end of a DSL line on your own
teeny Linux machine.

I have done this for several sites that really are more 'charity and
very local' type sites and by writing careful code/HTML, they are only
noticeably a bit slow on image downloads.

I was considering getting them hosted, but I ran into a few problems in
that some libraries I used were explicitly not to be used for gain etc
etc and the ISPs would not install the paid for or 'free' versions.

There are also often issues with sending email from shared hosts. As
well as getting versions up to date.


I have not found that some of the shared sites I am familiar with have
been any more reliable either.

In short for a small site, the only advantage a shared hosted site has
is a bit more bandwidth than the typical 448K upload of a UK domestic
DSL line.

The advantages of being able to organise your own code, timed backups
between machines and so on, outweighs that in my case. My ideal would be
a hosted virtual machine that I 'owned' but they cost a bit more.


> Any recommendations for good reliable (and not too expensive) hosts?
>
> While I'm here what about domain registration, I normally use Joker.

I've used A123reg and its fine.

>
> ~S
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172501 is a reply to message #172488] Mon, 21 February 2011 08:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 2/21/2011 4:58 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Sam Lowry wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> I currently run about half a dozen sites (Most flat HTML, but a few use
>> PHP), I'm planning to add another three (PHP based) sites. I could just
>> stuck them with my current host, but thought I'd check with the guru's
>> here
>> first.
>>
>> None of the sites need a load of bandwidth, I just need PHP, and MySQL
>> databases. I'm in the UK if that is relevant.
>>
>
> Consider actually hosting it at the back end of a DSL line on your own
> teeny Linux machine.
>
> I have done this for several sites that really are more 'charity and
> very local' type sites and by writing careful code/HTML, they are only
> noticeably a bit slow on image downloads.
>
> I was considering getting them hosted, but I ran into a few problems in
> that some libraries I used were explicitly not to be used for gain etc
> etc and the ISPs would not install the paid for or 'free' versions.
>
> There are also often issues with sending email from shared hosts. As
> well as getting versions up to date.
>
>
> I have not found that some of the shared sites I am familiar with have
> been any more reliable either.
>
> In short for a small site, the only advantage a shared hosted site has
> is a bit more bandwidth than the typical 448K upload of a UK domestic
> DSL line.
>
> The advantages of being able to organise your own code, timed backups
> between machines and so on, outweighs that in my case. My ideal would be
> a hosted virtual machine that I 'owned' but they cost a bit more.
>
>
>> Any recommendations for good reliable (and not too expensive) hosts?
>>
>> While I'm here what about domain registration, I normally use Joker.
>
> I've used A123reg and its fine.
>
>>
>> ~S

One of the stupidest suggestions ever. All kinds of problems with
self-hosting - such as do you have a generator for when power goes out?
Multiple communications lines when the phone line goes down? Someone
onsite 24/7 (even when you're on vacation) to reboot the machine and/or
correct problems?

This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
digger like TNP).

--
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Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172502 is a reply to message #172501] Mon, 21 February 2011 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
me is currently offline  me
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On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
> inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
> digger like TNP).

You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others, Mr.
Stuckle.

Bill B
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172508 is a reply to message #172502] Mon, 21 February 2011 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 2/21/2011 8:06 AM, Bill B wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
>> inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
>> digger like TNP).
>
> You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others, Mr.
> Stuckle.
>
> Bill B
>

And you can take your holier than thou attitude and stuff it where the
sun doesn't shine - that way it can be right next to your head.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172513 is a reply to message #172508] Mon, 30 September 2013 07:48 Go to previous message
j80k-vpfc is currently offline  j80k-vpfc
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In article <ijtpit$tuc$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>,
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net (Jerry Stuckle) wrote:

> *From:* Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net>
> *Date:* Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:33:14 -0500
>
> On 2/21/2011 8:06 AM, Bill B wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
>>> inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a
> ditch
>>> digger like TNP).
>>
>> You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others,
>> Mr.
>> Stuckle.
>>
>> Bill B
>>
>
> And you can take your holier than thou attitude and stuff it where
> the sun doesn't shine - that way it can be right next to your head.
>
> --
> ==================
> Remove the "x" from my email address
> Jerry Stuckle
> JDS Computer Training Corp.
> jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
> ==================
>
Jerry, behave!
For non mission critical, non-commercial little sites, hanging a server
on the end an ADSL link is a cheap and cheerful way to do it. I run my
ham radio site on a server in exactly this way, and still manage 99%+
uptime. If the site's not there one day, who cares? A UPS can take care
of most power outages. I'm in the UK too.

As for registration and DNS, my ISP takes care of this, and I have static
IP.

- Steve
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172521 is a reply to message #172501] Mon, 21 February 2011 10:18 Go to previous message
Simon is currently offline  Simon
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>
> One of the stupidest suggestions ever. All kinds of problems with
> self-hosting - such as do you have a generator for when power goes out?
> Multiple communications lines when the phone line goes down? Someone
> onsite 24/7 (even when you're on vacation) to reboot the machine and/or
> correct problems?

Not sure with the rest of the world, but in the UK, (in London at
least), this is not really an issue.

Phone lines hardly ever go down and the electricity is very reliable.
A UPS is probably all you need.
For a small website it is not a real issue.

Having said that, there are many hosts that are very good and take the
issue out of your hands.

A long time ago I used Asmallorange,
http://www.asmallorange.com/hosting/shared/ they are quite good and you
can easily upgrade, (as far as I can remember).

I now use http://www.eukhost.com/ but I have much bigger requirements
now, so I don't really know if they have anything for small sites.
They are helpful, but I think it is because I use a couple of racks.

Simon
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172523 is a reply to message #172502] Mon, 21 February 2011 11:14 Go to previous message
spambait is currently offline  spambait
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In article <ijtnvf$jn7$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B <me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
>> inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
>> digger like TNP).
>
> You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others, Mr.
> Stuckle.

Oh, $deity, here we go again. Leave off, will you? Is it not obvious by this
time that you're having no effect at all other than to annoy people?
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172526 is a reply to message #172523] Mon, 21 February 2011 11:25 Go to previous message
me is currently offline  me
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On 2/21/2011 11:14 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article<ijtnvf$jn7$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B<me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
>>> inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
>>> digger like TNP).
>>
>> You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others, Mr.
>> Stuckle.
>
> Oh, $deity, here we go again. Leave off, will you? Is it not obvious by this
> time that you're having no effect at all other than to annoy people?

The one thing a bully needs more than anything else is the quiet assent
of decent people. I trust you are such a person.

I know it is annoying; it is annoying to me also. That is insufficient
reason to lower my expectations of civil discourse.

Bill B
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172529 is a reply to message #172526] Mon, 21 February 2011 11:44 Go to previous message
spambait is currently offline  spambait
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In article <iju3kc$la4$2(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B <me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 11:14 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article<ijtnvf$jn7$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B<me(at)privacy(dot)net>
> wrote:
>>> On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
>>>> inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
>>>> digger like TNP).
>>>
>>> You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others, Mr.
>>> Stuckle.
>>
>> Oh, $deity, here we go again. Leave off, will you? Is it not obvious by this
>> time that you're having no effect at all other than to annoy people?
>
> The one thing a bully needs more than anything else is the quiet assent
> of decent people. I trust you are such a person.

Oh, get a grip.
>
> I know it is annoying; it is annoying to me also. That is insufficient
> reason to lower my expectations of civil discourse.

The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or ignore
things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes, he's a
jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask him to, no
matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear. That's the
nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile him. Just
like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these pointless
requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I trust I've
made mine: you're getting that way.
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172531 is a reply to message #172529] Mon, 21 February 2011 11:53 Go to previous message
me is currently offline  me
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On 2/21/2011 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article<iju3kc$la4$2(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B<me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 11:14 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> In article<ijtnvf$jn7$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B<me(at)privacy(dot)net>
>> wrote:
>>>> On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> > This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
>>>> > inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
>>>> > digger like TNP).
>>>>
>>>> You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others, Mr.
>>>> Stuckle.
>>>
>>> Oh, $deity, here we go again. Leave off, will you? Is it not obvious by this
>>> time that you're having no effect at all other than to annoy people?
>>
>> The one thing a bully needs more than anything else is the quiet assent
>> of decent people. I trust you are such a person.
>
> Oh, get a grip.
>>
>> I know it is annoying; it is annoying to me also. That is insufficient
>> reason to lower my expectations of civil discourse.
>
> The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or ignore
> things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes, he's a
> jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask him to, no
> matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear. That's the
> nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile him. Just
> like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these pointless
> requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I trust I've
> made mine: you're getting that way.

So noted. I have higher expectations of Mr. Stuckle.

Bill B
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172533 is a reply to message #172476] Mon, 21 February 2011 12:00 Go to previous message
Paul Herber is currently offline  Paul Herber
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On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:29:24 +0000, Sam Lowry <Sam.Lowry@dotzyne_NO-SPAM.com> wrote:

>
> Hi All
>
> I currently run about half a dozen sites (Most flat HTML, but a few use
> PHP), I'm planning to add another three (PHP based) sites. I could just
> stuck them with my current host, but thought I'd check with the guru's here
> first.
>
> None of the sites need a load of bandwidth, I just need PHP, and MySQL
> databases. I'm in the UK if that is relevant.
>
> Any recommendations for good reliable (and not too expensive) hosts?
>
> While I'm here what about domain registration, I normally use Joker.

I've been using TSOhost for a while, seems very good service, support is very quick.
http://billing.tsohost.co.uk/aff.php?aff=717
or if you want the plain URL without my affiliate URL then use
http://www.tsohost.co.uk/

No connectiion, just a happy user.



--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd.
http://www.sandrila.co.uk/
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172568 is a reply to message #172531] Mon, 21 February 2011 19:11 Go to previous message
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In article <iju58o$9nq$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B <me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

>> The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or ignore
>> things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes, he's a
>> jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask him to, no
>> matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear. That's the
>> nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile him. Just
>> like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these pointless
>> requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I trust I've
>> made mine: you're getting that way.
>
> So noted. I have higher expectations of Mr. Stuckle.

Just out of curiosity -- on what do you base those higher expectations?
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172573 is a reply to message #172568] Mon, 21 February 2011 20:02 Go to previous message
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On 2/21/2011 7:11 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article<iju58o$9nq$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B<me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>> The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or ignore
>>> things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes, he's a
>>> jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask him to, no
>>> matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear. That's the
>>> nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile him. Just
>>> like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these pointless
>>> requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I trust I've
>>> made mine: you're getting that way.
>>
>> So noted. I have higher expectations of Mr. Stuckle.
>
> Just out of curiosity -- on what do you base those higher expectations?

Short answer: I think he is able, and needs only find the will.

Longer, rambling answer:

My experience tells me that when people know what is expected there is a
higher probability that they will reach for it. I aim high and press
hard. I expect people to be at their best. There isn't any reason not to be.

My experience tells me that when people know where the boundaries are,
they tend to work within them (after testing them, of course). I
consider civil discourse a reasonable boundary. I expect everyone to
respect others, and expect to be respected. I expect to respect others,
and I expect to be respected.

While there isn't any reason not to be at your best, there are sometimes
obstacles. We all have "stuff" we carry around. I carry "stuff" around.
When people come up against their "stuff", the people who have concern
for them (I mean that in a general "agape" sort of way) let them know.
And give them encouragement.

You said Mr. Stuckle is a jerk. I disagree. He may occasionally act like
a jerk, but that is a long way from being one. I act like a jerk now and
then. That doesn't make me one as a matter of being.

I believe that Mr. Stuckle will see that he can accomplish what he wants
through civil discourse, which usually takes a giant step forward when
we don't take things personally. That's difficult, but can be
accomplished with a little heavy lifting.

I think he can do better (as can I and everyone else) and I think he
will. That is the basis for my higher expectations.

As to putting me in a killfile - they are handy little things, but
you/I/we should realize that putting someone in one has nothing to do
with that person - it's just you/me/us working out your/my/our "stuff."
Far better to remain engaged and make a difference, leave the world a
slightly better place than you found it.

I appreciate the question; thanks, Doug.

Bill B
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172579 is a reply to message #172573] Mon, 21 February 2011 20:23 Go to previous message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 2/21/2011 8:02 PM, Bill B wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 7:11 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article<iju58o$9nq$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill
>> B<me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
>>> On 2/21/2011 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>> The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or
>>>> ignore
>>>> things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes,
>>>> he's a
>>>> jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask
>>>> him to, no
>>>> matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear.
>>>> That's the
>>>> nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile
>>>> him. Just
>>>> like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these
>>>> pointless
>>>> requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I
>>>> trust I've
>>>> made mine: you're getting that way.
>>>
>>> So noted. I have higher expectations of Mr. Stuckle.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity -- on what do you base those higher expectations?
>
> Short answer: I think he is able, and needs only find the will.
>
> Longer, rambling answer:
>
> My experience tells me that when people know what is expected there is a
> higher probability that they will reach for it. I aim high and press
> hard. I expect people to be at their best. There isn't any reason not to
> be.
>
> My experience tells me that when people know where the boundaries are,
> they tend to work within them (after testing them, of course). I
> consider civil discourse a reasonable boundary. I expect everyone to
> respect others, and expect to be respected. I expect to respect others,
> and I expect to be respected.
>
> While there isn't any reason not to be at your best, there are sometimes
> obstacles. We all have "stuff" we carry around. I carry "stuff" around.
> When people come up against their "stuff", the people who have concern
> for them (I mean that in a general "agape" sort of way) let them know.
> And give them encouragement.
>
> You said Mr. Stuckle is a jerk. I disagree. He may occasionally act like
> a jerk, but that is a long way from being one. I act like a jerk now and
> then. That doesn't make me one as a matter of being.
>
> I believe that Mr. Stuckle will see that he can accomplish what he wants
> through civil discourse, which usually takes a giant step forward when
> we don't take things personally. That's difficult, but can be
> accomplished with a little heavy lifting.
>
> I think he can do better (as can I and everyone else) and I think he
> will. That is the basis for my higher expectations.
>
> As to putting me in a killfile - they are handy little things, but
> you/I/we should realize that putting someone in one has nothing to do
> with that person - it's just you/me/us working out your/my/our "stuff."
> Far better to remain engaged and make a difference, leave the world a
> slightly better place than you found it.
>
> I appreciate the question; thanks, Doug.
>
> Bill B

You miss one salient point, Bill.

I've spent my whole life kissing up to idiots and pricks. The one thing
I learned is that no matter how nice you try to be, some people are
pricks no matter what you do.

I'm at the point now that I just don't give a damn. I'm comfortable
with myself; I don't need external verification that I'm a good guy.

So when I see idiots making stoopid remarks, I'll call them on it. And
I'll use language they understand, because trying to be nice to them
doesn't work. And when people make honest requests for help, I'll help
them in the best way I know how.

And quite frankly, I don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172581 is a reply to message #172502] Mon, 21 February 2011 20:25 Go to previous message
The Natural Philosoph is currently offline  The Natural Philosoph
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Bill B wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> This is EXACTLY the type of response you get when you ask in an
>> inappropriate newsgroup (and exactly what I would expect from a ditch
>> digger like TNP).
>
> You can make your point without diminishing yourself and others, Mr.
> Stuckle.
>

Actually, the greater tragedy, is that he cannot.
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172582 is a reply to message #172568] Mon, 21 February 2011 20:27 Go to previous message
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Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <iju58o$9nq$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill B <me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>> The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or ignore
>>> things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes, he's a
>>> jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask him to, no
>>> matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear. That's the
>>> nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile him. Just
>>> like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these pointless
>>> requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I trust I've
>>> made mine: you're getting that way.
>> So noted. I have higher expectations of Mr. Stuckle.
>
> Just out of curiosity -- on what do you base those higher expectations?

Faith, Hope and Charity?

Certainly not attention to the evidence.
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172587 is a reply to message #172579] Mon, 21 February 2011 20:39 Go to previous message
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On 2/21/2011 8:23 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 8:02 PM, Bill B wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 7:11 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> In article<iju58o$9nq$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill
>>> B<me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
>>>> On 2/21/2011 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> > The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or
>>>> > ignore
>>>> > things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes,
>>>> > he's a
>>>> > jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask
>>>> > him to, no
>>>> > matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear.
>>>> > That's the
>>>> > nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile
>>>> > him. Just
>>>> > like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these
>>>> > pointless
>>>> > requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I
>>>> > trust I've
>>>> > made mine: you're getting that way.
>>>>
>>>> So noted. I have higher expectations of Mr. Stuckle.
>>>
>>> Just out of curiosity -- on what do you base those higher expectations?
>>
>> Short answer: I think he is able, and needs only find the will.
>>
>> Longer, rambling answer:
>>
>> My experience tells me that when people know what is expected there is a
>> higher probability that they will reach for it. I aim high and press
>> hard. I expect people to be at their best. There isn't any reason not to
>> be.
>>
>> My experience tells me that when people know where the boundaries are,
>> they tend to work within them (after testing them, of course). I
>> consider civil discourse a reasonable boundary. I expect everyone to
>> respect others, and expect to be respected. I expect to respect others,
>> and I expect to be respected.
>>
>> While there isn't any reason not to be at your best, there are sometimes
>> obstacles. We all have "stuff" we carry around. I carry "stuff" around.
>> When people come up against their "stuff", the people who have concern
>> for them (I mean that in a general "agape" sort of way) let them know.
>> And give them encouragement.
>>
>> You said Mr. Stuckle is a jerk. I disagree. He may occasionally act like
>> a jerk, but that is a long way from being one. I act like a jerk now and
>> then. That doesn't make me one as a matter of being.
>>
>> I believe that Mr. Stuckle will see that he can accomplish what he wants
>> through civil discourse, which usually takes a giant step forward when
>> we don't take things personally. That's difficult, but can be
>> accomplished with a little heavy lifting.
>>
>> I think he can do better (as can I and everyone else) and I think he
>> will. That is the basis for my higher expectations.
>>
>> As to putting me in a killfile - they are handy little things, but
>> you/I/we should realize that putting someone in one has nothing to do
>> with that person - it's just you/me/us working out your/my/our "stuff."
>> Far better to remain engaged and make a difference, leave the world a
>> slightly better place than you found it.
>>
>> I appreciate the question; thanks, Doug.
>>
>> Bill B
>
> You miss one salient point, Bill.
>
> I've spent my whole life kissing up to idiots and pricks. The one thing
> I learned is that no matter how nice you try to be, some people are
> pricks no matter what you do.
>
> I'm at the point now that I just don't give a damn. I'm comfortable with
> myself; I don't need external verification that I'm a good guy.
>
> So when I see idiots making stoopid remarks, I'll call them on it. And
> I'll use language they understand, because trying to be nice to them
> doesn't work. And when people make honest requests for help, I'll help
> them in the best way I know how.
>
> And quite frankly, I don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks.
>

As I have noted repeatedly, Mr. Stuckle, I am not the thought police.
Speak freely, say what you will, as you wish. When you cross the line
into hostile, bullying behavior, I will bring it to your attention.

You can use language you think they understand without being hostile and
aggressive. That, and that alone, is the issue to which I draw your
attention. Civil discourse.

Having said, that, people respond to being called stupid with the same
understanding you show when someone calls you stupid. Unfortunately,
your theory falls apart pretty quickly. So, your real reasons may lie
elsewhere. Think about it.

You always have the option to rise above. Then you will have personal
power, which for the most part you currently squander at a reckless rate.

Bill B
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172592 is a reply to message #172587] Mon, 21 February 2011 21:06 Go to previous message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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On 2/21/2011 8:39 PM, Bill B wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 8:23 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 8:02 PM, Bill B wrote:
>>> On 2/21/2011 7:11 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> In article<iju58o$9nq$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org>, Bill
>>>> B<me(at)privacy(dot)net> wrote:
>>>> > On 2/21/2011 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> The nice thing about Usenet is that it's so easy to filter out or
>>>> >> ignore
>>>> >> things that bother you. Like your continual harping at Stuckle. Yes,
>>>> >> he's a
>>>> >> jerk. No, he's not going to stop being a jerk just because you ask
>>>> >> him to, no
>>>> >> matter how often you ask -- he's already made that quite clear.
>>>> >> That's the
>>>> >> nature of jerks. If you don't like reading his posts, then killfile
>>>> >> him. Just
>>>> >> like I'm going to killfile you, the next time you post one of these
>>>> >> pointless
>>>> >> requests. You've made your point: you think Stuckle's obnoxious. I
>>>> >> trust I've
>>>> >> made mine: you're getting that way.
>>>> >
>>>> > So noted. I have higher expectations of Mr. Stuckle.
>>>>
>>>> Just out of curiosity -- on what do you base those higher expectations?
>>>
>>> Short answer: I think he is able, and needs only find the will.
>>>
>>> Longer, rambling answer:
>>>
>>> My experience tells me that when people know what is expected there is a
>>> higher probability that they will reach for it. I aim high and press
>>> hard. I expect people to be at their best. There isn't any reason not to
>>> be.
>>>
>>> My experience tells me that when people know where the boundaries are,
>>> they tend to work within them (after testing them, of course). I
>>> consider civil discourse a reasonable boundary. I expect everyone to
>>> respect others, and expect to be respected. I expect to respect others,
>>> and I expect to be respected.
>>>
>>> While there isn't any reason not to be at your best, there are sometimes
>>> obstacles. We all have "stuff" we carry around. I carry "stuff" around.
>>> When people come up against their "stuff", the people who have concern
>>> for them (I mean that in a general "agape" sort of way) let them know.
>>> And give them encouragement.
>>>
>>> You said Mr. Stuckle is a jerk. I disagree. He may occasionally act like
>>> a jerk, but that is a long way from being one. I act like a jerk now and
>>> then. That doesn't make me one as a matter of being.
>>>
>>> I believe that Mr. Stuckle will see that he can accomplish what he wants
>>> through civil discourse, which usually takes a giant step forward when
>>> we don't take things personally. That's difficult, but can be
>>> accomplished with a little heavy lifting.
>>>
>>> I think he can do better (as can I and everyone else) and I think he
>>> will. That is the basis for my higher expectations.
>>>
>>> As to putting me in a killfile - they are handy little things, but
>>> you/I/we should realize that putting someone in one has nothing to do
>>> with that person - it's just you/me/us working out your/my/our "stuff."
>>> Far better to remain engaged and make a difference, leave the world a
>>> slightly better place than you found it.
>>>
>>> I appreciate the question; thanks, Doug.
>>>
>>> Bill B
>>
>> You miss one salient point, Bill.
>>
>> I've spent my whole life kissing up to idiots and pricks. The one thing
>> I learned is that no matter how nice you try to be, some people are
>> pricks no matter what you do.
>>
>> I'm at the point now that I just don't give a damn. I'm comfortable with
>> myself; I don't need external verification that I'm a good guy.
>>
>> So when I see idiots making stoopid remarks, I'll call them on it. And
>> I'll use language they understand, because trying to be nice to them
>> doesn't work. And when people make honest requests for help, I'll help
>> them in the best way I know how.
>>
>> And quite frankly, I don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks.
>>
>
> As I have noted repeatedly, Mr. Stuckle, I am not the thought police.
> Speak freely, say what you will, as you wish. When you cross the line
> into hostile, bullying behavior, I will bring it to your attention.
>
> You can use language you think they understand without being hostile and
> aggressive. That, and that alone, is the issue to which I draw your
> attention. Civil discourse.
>
> Having said, that, people respond to being called stupid with the same
> understanding you show when someone calls you stupid. Unfortunately,
> your theory falls apart pretty quickly. So, your real reasons may lie
> elsewhere. Think about it.
>
> You always have the option to rise above. Then you will have personal
> power, which for the most part you currently squander at a reckless rate.
>
> Bill B

And as I have said repeatedly - I really don't give a damn what you
think. So just take your holier than thou attitude and stick it where
the sun doesn't shine. That way it can be right beside your head.

People like you are almost as bad as trolls.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172596 is a reply to message #172573] Mon, 21 February 2011 21:19 Go to previous message
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Bill B wrote:
>
> You said Mr. Stuckle is a jerk. I disagree. He may occasionally act like
> a jerk, but that is a long way from being one. I act like a jerk now and
> then. That doesn't make me one as a matter of being.
>
> I believe that Mr. Stuckle will see that he can accomplish what he wants
> through civil discourse, which usually takes a giant step forward when
> we don't take things personally. That's difficult, but can be
> accomplished with a little heavy lifting.

There is where I differ from you. Mr Stuckle achieves exactly what he
wants by behaving *exactly* like a jerk.

Like you, I once believed that it was a problem of communication, and if
patiently explained to, the dear little lamb might see the error of its
ways.

But Occam's razor dictates that if it acts like a jerk all the time,
whether or not it's the case, it's easiest to move on on the basic
working hypothesis that it *is* a jerk.

That being simply a container concept that encapsulates the arrogant
deliberate rudeness and inability to admit error, that goes with the
entity that presents itself here as 'Stuckle'.

The 'Stuckle' is constitutionally flawed in one overarching respect. It
is constitutionally unable to admit to anyone, and most of all to
itself, that it is, ever will be, or ever has been, wrong.

What inherent weakness of character, lack of moral fibre, or unfortunate
incidents during potty training have led to this deplorable and
egregious fault, one can only surmise.

Possibly a strict religious upbringing and intense beatings whenever
fault was admitted? leading to an instinctive reaction to any threat,
real or imagined, of instant denial?

It (Stuckle) provides material upon which a Phd in advanced clinical
psychology might well be written.

If the stereotypical 'right man' syndrome had not already been clearly
delineated elsewhere, already.

Personally, I will stay with the earthy wisdom of the business partner
of one such jerk, that it was my misfortune to be employed by, shortly
before he swindled his customers, staff and creditors out of enough
money to set up another company elsewhere.. 'Why is Dick' I asked 'such
a ...Dick?'

"Oi, well Oi rackons that Dick, see, is like CONFUSED by people, and he
ain't ever sure whether they likes 'ee or not, as it were, especially
now 'ee got to be a bit rich as it were, so what Dick rackons, is that
if he behaves like a total cunt to everyone, then everyone hates him,
and finally 'ee knows where 'ee stands loike: And if everyone hates 'ee,
is a lot easier to rob 'em without getting all bothered by conscience,
ain't it?".

>
> I think he can do better (as can I and everyone else) and I think he
> will. That is the basis for my higher expectations.
>

Dream on Daffy. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. If it
quacks like a duck, it *is* a duck. I ain't got no time for all this
liberal bullshit. A rattlesnake may be able to do better, and 'ain't
responsible fer bin a rattlesnake, but I puts ma heel on um jess the
same if I catches um roun' ma chillun...'

> As to putting me in a killfile - they are handy little things, but
> you/I/we should realize that putting someone in one has nothing to do
> with that person - it's just you/me/us working out your/my/our "stuff."
> Far better to remain engaged and make a difference, leave the world a
> slightly better place than you found it.
>

I'm not putting you in my killfile. I think you are kinda cute.

Naive perhaps..But 'mostly harmless'. ;-)
Re: Host recommendations (slightly OT) [message #172597 is a reply to message #172587] Mon, 21 February 2011 21:31 Go to previous message
The Natural Philosoph is currently offline  The Natural Philosoph
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Bill B wrote:

>
> You always have the option to rise above. Then you will have personal
> power, which for the most part you currently squander at a reckless rate.
>

The Stuckle has no personal power: that is the real root of the problem.

He is caught in a classic psychological trap: In order to get it
(personal power), he has to let it in, BUT, if he relaxes his self
righteousness for an instant, his whole personality would collapse
before he had enough to actually survive.

It's the classic case of the small weak boy and the schoolyard bully.
The bully is weak and bullies because he is weak, to enhance his self
esteem (but not his personal power) the weaker boy learns to bluster and
act brave to avoid getting his nuts kneed. As time progresses, he learns
to emulate the bully and finds eventually someone weaker than
himself..and so it goes on. The Stuckle may *seem* all self esteem, but
that's only because as you have realised, underneath, he has nothing
else of substance: just crumbs he has collected from the writings and
sayings of better men, armed with which he hopes to impress enough to
convince at least some poor newb, that he actually knows what he is
talking about.

Why else does he persistently top the ratings in terms of messages
posted in every newsgroup he haunts?

But seldom comes anywhere in 'original content'
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