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Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180930 is a reply to message #180915] Tue, 26 March 2013 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Natural Philosoph is currently offline  The Natural Philosoph
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On 26/03/13 03:10, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> richard the sto0pid wrote:
>>>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the
>>>> exact same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of
>>>> a post of mine.
>>>
>>> That's impossible, unless you are both behind the same router.
>>>
>>>> So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>>>
>>> Well, sure. Why not? It was the most logical reason.
>>>
>>>> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
>>>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one
>>>> IP?
>>>
>>> And that has absolutely nothing to do with Usenet posting. Can't you
>>> ever get *anything* right?
>>
>> he never said it had.. its a valid question, and has peripheral bearing
>> on PHP so here goes.
>>
>> The browser sends not only a page request, ...
>
> Whoa. Stop right there. RtS was not talking about browsers and their
> connecting IPs with web servers. He said "person in usenet who had the
> exact same IP as mine." Someone who sent a Usenet post.
>
> And since Bullis lives in motels, there is no "corporate proxy" concerns
> either. If there actually was such a poster with the same IP, it was
> either someone staying at the same motel or was a nymshift by the man
> himself (which, if you knew RtS, would be the most likely case).
>

then there was likely a hotel NAT system in play.

although albasani dont seem to log it, no one out in netland knows that
my ip address is 192.168.0.1

Nor, since about 100 million other people around on that same address,
which is unrouteable on the internet by decree, would it do them a power
of good if they did.

All they can see is my public IP address which IS route-able. But thats
shared with my wife's computer and a couple of other machines behind my
NAT equipped router.

And its not just homes, offices and hotels that do NAT. Ive seen whole
mobile networks use it as well.

If you don't need incoming capabilities, you can in principle have over
10,000 machines or more behind a NAT service.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180933 is a reply to message #180888] Wed, 27 March 2013 01:29 Go to previous message
Richard Damon is currently offline  Richard Damon
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On 3/25/13 8:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>
>> You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any
>> time, and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same
>> IP address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
>> address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request
>> with all of it's images) but nothing more.
>
> 1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
>
> 2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
>
> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
> unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP for a
> static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
>
> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
> page request only is complete nonsense.
>

I have seen some setup were the user was given a private space IP
address, which the ISP would NAT out through a /24 (or bigger) block of
addresses. Under this situation, the IP address might not be stable for
an entire page request, as when the browser opens up a second channel
for an image, this could be mapped to a different IP address in the
block. This setup was more common with dial up, but may become more
common for residential access as a way to preserve IP space to delay the
need to move the residence to IPv6.

This method does give some issues with web sites that protect from
session hijacking by checking for IP addresses. Some application I use
specifically allow for this check to be set to only match part of the IP
address.
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