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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13667 is a reply to message #13666] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 00:23   |
Ilia
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Erhm the profile box color is already seperate from the message background (or are you referring to something else)? There is also a thin (1px) border around every element, do you want a different border?
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13668 is a reply to message #13667] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 00:31 |
tgaastra
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Ah, I figured as much (the profile box color element) but like I said, forgive me for not looking it up at the exact moment. If it's something that's easily set in the forum CSS, that's great. My memory isn't what it used to be.
My border suggestion was to have the 1px border also be around the profile box, so it would be "bordered off" from the body of the message. At least to me on this board currently (using either IE6 or Firebird .7) the difference between the profile box and the body text is the difference between a light blue and white... a dark line between them might help... just a suggestion.
Oh, maybe a dotted line....
[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2003 00:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13672 is a reply to message #13668] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 01:04 |
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Wild_Cat
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Well, I took a look and I see MAJOR changes to CSS actually!
When in 2.5.x (even before) you had RowStyleA, RowStyleB & RowStyleC, the combinations of which were used everywhere, now we have new classes - such as MsgR1 (the subject/date row), MsgR2 as user info row, and iside it - "msgud" for user info and "msgut" for user actions. So, in theory it can all be separately set. And it's good. As to the border - when you have a separate class, you can set whatever border style you want - dashed, grooved, botoom, all around, whatever - all with CSS! I see some more new classes, but well, that's already very relieving. Alhtough white space issues remain not too clear. I need to change the template for myself on 2.5.3 too, so I'll be thinking about it anyway. If I think of something clever, I'll show it in convenient form - got it!
Lady of Avalon
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13673 is a reply to message #13672] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 01:06 |
Ilia
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Yes, CSS file got a whole bunch of new classes etc... and inheritences in it now work properly. It should also be easier to edit since all of the CSS is 1 big file. So you can just copy & paste from an HTML editor.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13675 is a reply to message #13671] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 04:58 |
tgaastra
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OK, crudely, using a bitmap editor since its late, and I don't have the time to rip up a piece of HTML to do it:
I think a lightly dotted line (lighter than my example on the left, probably more like a 25% line MIGHT help seperate things out...
Whoops, the image upload code seems a bit messed up...Ah well, I can either mail it, or when I get time in the next few days, do a real HTML mockup... Probably not till the weekend though. Dang day job. 
-
Attachment: untitled.PNG
(Size: 14.55KB, Downloaded 1725 times)
[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2003 05:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13678 is a reply to message #13674] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 13:11 |
Ilia
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I actually like this format, there however a problem, FUDforum has a lot more information to display, if you can show me how to fit it all in. The maybe we can do something based on that layout.
Here is the list of (missing) fiels:
Add to buddy list, Ingore/Un-ingore, IP, Hostname, Location, Custom Tags, Regular tags, Avatar.
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If you separate each message like you the topics ( the poster info would still be on top attached to the msg right underneath ), then it would look good and add a consistent throughout the forum.
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Not sure I understand, the topic list does not seperate each topic, there is a tiny white line, that's all. Perphaps you can show me what you mean....
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13682 is a reply to message #13681] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 16:37 |
Ilia
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Why the padding, just to put some space between the end of column & the moderators or something more? What do you mean by significant (can we translate that into pixel amount) ?
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13686 is a reply to message #13685] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 17:33 |
Ilia
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If you look at the other screenshots you'll see that the idea is to move By: ... stuff to the outmost right as well...
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13687 is a reply to message #13678] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 18:09 |
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esm2002
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| Ilia wrote on Wed, 22 October 2003 09:11 |
I actually like this format, there however a problem, FUDforum has a lot more information to display, if you can show me how to fit it all in. The maybe we can do something based on that layout.
Here is the list of (missing) fiels:
Add to buddy list, Ingore/Un-ingore, IP, Hostname, Location, Custom Tags, Regular tags, Avatar.
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I assume you already have all those fields set up in MsgR2 so that should not be a problem.
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Not sure I understand, the topic list does not seperate each topic, there is a tiny white line, that's all. Perphaps you can show me what you mean....
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i meant to refer to this section. tree section
also, see below for example
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If you separate each message like you the topics ( the poster info would still be on top attached to the msg right underneath ), then it would look good and add a consistent throughout the forum.
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take a look at the source code. I just made a couple of modification. I made each msg a separate table - MsgR2,MsgR2,MsgR2,MsgToolBar and separated each msg/table with a line break so that it looks like tree section
I left MsgR1 and MsgToolBar ( but changed the bg color ) and switched the bg colors around using css of MsgR2 and MsgR2 - The bg color of the column heading should be darker than the bg color of the data.
Gene
"The older I get, the more I admire competence, just simple competence in any field from adultery to zoology."
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13689 is a reply to message #13679] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 18:25 |
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esm2002
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I can live with this design of the poster's info on top and msg below if you separate the responses with a line break. See my response on separation of msgs.
Gene
"The older I get, the more I admire competence, just simple competence in any field from adultery to zoology."
[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2003 18:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13693 is a reply to message #13691] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 20:53 |
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esm2002
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| Ilia wrote on Wed, 22 October 2003 15:03 |
Yes they are setup in row #2 using a 3 column table. However based on that picture the only change would be to more the 3rd (last) row to the outmost right hand side?
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would you combine the top and bottom line ( MsgR1 and MsgToolBar )??? I could live with that. kinda like http://fud.prohost.org/forum/index.php?t=tree&th=2865&mid=13622& ;rid=177&rev=&reveal=
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I don't like the fact that the message subject is joined into the profile. Perphaps the black line between would make a clearer seperation? I do want the subject & time of posting to be easily visible.
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I don't have a problem with that as it can be easily controlled thru the CSS for the row. But not black. Black is used to for the "msg box." a dull grey something like #363636. If it is black, it will compete with the black line around the msg box.
see http://fud.prohost.org/forum/index.php?t=threadt&frm_id=14&rid=177. this would be accepatable. but even it could be another pixel or two. the eye needs to be discern a specific line of demarcation as it scans down the thread.
That spacing is critical to the separation. for example look at the front page you give as an example. the white line provides that "line of demarcation" on the right side for the Posts, Topics and Last Post columns. But as the eye moves to the left under the Forums column, that same white line fades from the minds eye.
That's why the moderator's column worked fine on the right but not as well on the left. Because the line of demarcation became obscured, it became difficult to find the actual forum name. With two lines it was ok because the line either was or was not the forum name. Binary: on or off. but with the third line, that was not true.
it is somewhat like putting a blank line between the paragraphs of this msg. Over the years our eyes have become trained to recognize the bank line as a transition from one paragraph to another paragraph (from one thought to another thought). it is our line of demarcation between paragraphs.
well, enough of that.
Once again. I like the spacing of this one. Personally. But I would like to see if the "by" on the same line but right aligned would be better looking. I understand putting it on a line underneath, then as the window shrinks, it could slide left underneath the msg title. But if it is on the same line, it cuts the length to show this info in half.
Gene
"The older I get, the more I admire competence, just simple competence in any field from adultery to zoology."
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13694 is a reply to message #13693] |
Wed, 22 October 2003 21:48 |
Ilia
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Err, I think you misunderstood me due to a typo. I ment 3rd column not 3rd row. I do not wish to combine MsgR1 & MsgToolBar. I can't even imagine how that would work. I was asking wether the change you were proposing was to move the last column of the MsgR1 to the output right hand side as in the image you've posted before.
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I don't like the fact that the message subject is joined into the profile. Perphaps the black line between would make a clearer seperation? I do want the subject & time of posting to be easily visible.
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I don't have a problem with that as it can be easily controlled thru the CSS for the row. But not black. Black is used to for the "msg box." a dull grey something like #363636. If it is black, it will compete with the black line around the msg box.
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Dull grey border on a slightly darker grey background? That does not sound like it would work...
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That spacing is critical to the separation. for example look at the front page you give as an example. the white line provides that "line of demarcation" on the right side for the Posts, Topics and Last Post columns. But as the eye moves to the left under the Forums column, that same white line fades from the minds eye.
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You can have too much of a good thing  , I think too much spacing results in quite the opposite effect. IMHO it would be better to use CSS padding of 4-5 pixels (at most) as a break between the message. Anything more and message display will look disjointed.
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Once again. I like the spacing of this one. Personally. But I would like to see if the "by" on the same line but right aligned would be better looking. I understand putting it on a line underneath, then as the window shrinks, it could slide left underneath the msg title. But if it is on the same line, it cuts the length to show this info in half.
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Actually it does not, because the icon height is exactly 2 text lines, so the only difference is that now there is 1 line aligned to the center of the row. However, if the subject of the message is long is could result in rather ugly wrapping.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13696 is a reply to message #13694] |
Thu, 23 October 2003 01:37 |
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esm2002
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Location: Atlanta Georgia
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| Ilia wrote on Wed, 22 October 2003 17:48 |
Err, I think you misunderstood me due to a typo. I ment 3rd column not 3rd row. I do not wish to combine MsgR1 & MsgToolBar. I can't even imagine how that would work. I was asking wether the change you were proposing was to move the last column of the MsgR1 to the output right hand side as in the image you've posted before.
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well, I was wondering cause it did make sense to keep the MsgToolBar row
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Dull grey border on a slightly darker grey background? That does not sound like it would work...
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well, it works pretty good.
the top two msgs use a dull grey on a dull color. the 3rd msg uses a black line. to me it calls attention to the line itself when you want to highlite the msg in MsgR3.
it kinda like using a light bg color for the column headings (MsgR1 and MsgR2 ) and a dark bg color for msg in MsgR3. Since you want to direct the reader's attention to the msg, you would think it would work. but it just doesn't work that way because when I tried it from time to time over the last 30+ yrs, I'm told to "fix it." See the 4th and 5th examples.
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You can have too much of a good thing , I think too much spacing results in quite the opposite effect. IMHO it would be better to use CSS padding of 4-5 pixels (at most) as a break between the message. Anything more and message display will look disjointed.
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If you use CSS padding, then that can easily be adjusted to preference. My position is that our eyes are trained to expect certain things and that any deviation from that "norm" will draw attention. We try to do that in advertisements. In the tree view the spacing between our "paragraphs" ( as represented by each block of msgs ) is not what we expect to see. The small spacing between the msgs draws attention to the small spacing between the msgs when we want the reader to focus on the msg.
It just like when we see that extra space between a first and last name where the middle initial is suppose to go but the programmer forgot to check to see if the middle initial could be empty. If had $5 for everytime I have been asked to fix that, we could take the rest of the year off. I would say that it is absolutely amazing how people can see that extra space, but they do it everytime it happens, so I would actually be amazed if they did not see it.
We just notice the unusual. That is why I stick to the standard line spacing as measured from baseline to baseline when I need to separate things and not call attention to the spacing itself. But that is just me. Experience in the corporate world has been a harsh taskmaster.
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Actually it does not, because the icon height is exactly 2 text lines, so the only difference is that now there is 1 line aligned to the center of the row. However, if the subject of the message is long is could result in rather ugly wrapping.
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You lost me on this one. Ok, I see that the icon is 2 text lines high. well the subject is suppose to be somewhat terse without being a paragraph long. I understand the folks can get long-winded. maybe use a maxlenght tag to limit it so they both fit inside the 800x600 window. but if the icon is two lines high then, put them on separate lines.
Gene
"The older I get, the more I admire competence, just simple competence in any field from adultery to zoology."
[Updated on: Thu, 23 October 2003 02:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13700 is a reply to message #13698] |
Thu, 23 October 2003 14:27 |
Ilia
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Ok, I think I got a bunch of idea set now. I'll try to implement some of the changes and activate them on this forum today.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13703 is a reply to message #13702] |
Thu, 23 October 2003 19:12 |
Ilia
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Ok the changes are now 'live'. If you do not see the changes then:
1) Make sure you are using the default theme (I didn't rebuild other themes)
2) Make sure your browser is not caching the page (refresh once or twice).
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13707 is a reply to message #13706] |
Thu, 23 October 2003 21:26 |
Ilia
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| esm2002 wrote on Thu, 23 October 2003 17:16 |
that looks good. will I be able to set the CSS to get the following look? can this be done?. This just my personal view as I think it looks cleaner. Not as many horizontal lines for the eye to contend with.
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You can do anything via the templating system, customizations are bo no means limited to CSS files. That said removing of the borders is something you should be able to accomplish via CSS, the borders are created there.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13709 is a reply to message #13708] |
Thu, 23 October 2003 21:33 |
Ilia
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| AutoHost wrote on Thu, 23 October 2003 17:30 |
In both IE 6 and Firebird 0.7, I'm seeing a virtical scroll bar to the right of the 'rank,custom tag, avatar' area.
See this
Is this intended? I'm using 1024x768 full screen browser.
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Correct it is there to allow flexibility in the number of custom tags a person may have. The actual height of the box is controlled via the CSS, so if most of your users have avatars and height can be greater you can easily adjust this setting.
This works in IE, Mozilla and Opera 7+. The only browser I've tested where this does not work in Konqueror 3.1.4 (I will report a bug to konqueror developers shortly).
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13721 is a reply to message #13709] |
Fri, 24 October 2003 13:28 |
AutoHost
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| Ilia wrote on Thu, 23 October 2003 17:33 |
| AutoHost wrote on Thu, 23 October 2003 17:30 |
In both IE 6 and Firebird 0.7, I'm seeing a virtical scroll bar to the right of the 'rank,custom tag, avatar' area.
See this
Is this intended? I'm using 1024x768 full screen browser.
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Correct it is there to allow flexibility in the number of custom tags a person may have. The actual height of the box is controlled via the CSS, so if most of your users have avatars and height can be greater you can easily adjust this setting.
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Hmmm... so if some have large avatars and I change the CSS to adjust it, then every post would have a lot of vertical space in that row...
Can the vertical size of the row be dynamic, automatically resize itself based on its content, so no vertical scroll bar would ever be seen? That way some users who have more custom tags and/or avatars etc wouldn't force the average users' message rows to have a lot of wasted vertical space.
Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHost
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13722 is a reply to message #13721] |
Fri, 24 October 2003 13:36 |
Ilia
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Technically it could be dynamic, but that would require usage of a CSS tag (max-height) that is not yet supported by all browsers and does not work too well with overflow CSS in those who do.
I guess the real question is how many custom tags do your users have on average? If the answer is 1-2 then change the height (CSS) of the custom tag div to about 38-42 pixels and that'll eliminate the need for scroll bar and won't increase the height of the user info panel by more then 2-3 pixels (if no avatar is present).
Basically it one of the 'adjust to suit your needs' kinda features.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: New in 2.6.0RC1 [message #13739 is a reply to message #13729] |
Sun, 26 October 2003 16:39 |
Ilia
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That would be bad, because it would make user info for users with >3-4 tags strech for (vertically) for as many tags as there are.
FUDforum Core Developer
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