| FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26425] |
Thu, 21 July 2005 17:02  |
Ilia
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In the past few years FUDforum has grown quite a bit in both the offered functionality and the user base. However, aside from a few tweaks the layout of the forum has remained largely unchanged. While the current layout works quite well for most people, there is a clear want to update the layout to something more interesting. Hence this contest, the goal being to devise a new better, faster and prettier default theme (layout) for the forum, which would improve the user experience. Aside from a new and improved default template some additional templates maybe included in the stock distribution to give forum deployers greater flexibility as far as appearance out of the box.
So, if you have some spare time and would like to help to improve FUDforum please submit your design entries.
There are few requirements from the design and I ask that you consider them when making your changes:
- The design should be based on CSS, you can make use of tables and so on, but the formatting should be done in CSS as much as possible.
- The design should work in all major browsers, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, Konqueror and Safari.
- Try to keep the design as generic as possible so that it can be applicable to almost any situation the forum is used in. We want to allow people to use the forum without having to tweak the design every time.
- Be original, don’t port layouts and themes of existing bulletin boards.
How to submit your ideas?
- Send a patch with your changes (please indicate the forum version the patch is based upon).
- Send an archive of all the modified files.
The submissions can be either attached as replies to this topic or sent to me via e-mail at forum(at)prohost(dot)org.
Timeline:
It is my hope that we have some suggestions within the next 2 months at which point via the use of public opinion we will determine the best entries.
Licensing Issues:
In order to use your template ideas the license needs to permit its distribution with FUDforum, the acceptable licenses are: GPL (FUDforum’s license), LGPL, BSD, Apache and PHP license.
Prizes:
For the winning design that becomes the default theme for FUDforum aside from my gratitude (as well as those of other FUDforum users) the winner will receive a 4GB Ipod Mini. Authors of designs that get adopted as optional FUDforum themes, will all receive 512 meg Ipod Shuffle.
It should be noted that the authors will be given their due credit inside the FUDforum’s CREDITS file.
FUDforum Core Developer
[Updated on: Thu, 21 July 2005 18:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26437 is a reply to message #26434] |
Thu, 21 July 2005 21:52  |
Ilia
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Both are valid,, I'd prefer to keep the data layout relatively the same, but there are not restrictions.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26496 is a reply to message #26490] |
Fri, 22 July 2005 21:30 |
Ilia
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Interesting ideas, the 1st variant of the page looks rather well. Few things to note, how would nested categories look like, while not used on this forum, FUDforum allows categories to have subcategories ala:
Main Category
---- Sub Category
--------- Sub sub category
Aside from that the only information I feel is missing that is somewhat import are details about the moderators. Since front page is the only place where this is shown, perhaps we need to consider showing it somehow or move it off to another page.
The 3rd concept, topic view is a neat concept, but I wonder if perhaps the forum listing is given too much space there. In most cases people relatively rarely change forums and spend much more time reading messages and browsing topic. Thus from usability perspective it may be worth while to reduce the space taken up by that list.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26568 is a reply to message #26534] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 15:41 |
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Lukin
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Hello world! 
| !alex wrote on Mon, 25 July 2005 12:46 |
i`m currently working on templates for my ecommerce-solution that are nearly pure css, xhtml 1.0 transitional compliant and use no tables (at the moment still 2 or 3  )
- generally i would say it is possible to give the forum a div-based layout but there is need to use a lot of css-hacks to switch some values based on the browser.
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Well, I see no point in removing all tables - they're allowed even in strict XHTML, as long as they are not used for design, but for presenting data. I made phpBB template without tables, pure xhtml and css. Removing tables from "index" and "viewforum" was a mistake - there is no way to make good substite for them (substitute that would look so clear and would work with all browsers or in all resolutions).
Other than that I agree it's possible to make a forum layout based on div's, etc.
| !alex wrote on Mon, 25 July 2005 12:46 |
At the moment i don't have enough spare to work on a forum`s layout but if someone would like to work on such a mission i may bring-in some hours on the css/hacks to make it work on different browsers.
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http://www.dithered.com/css_filters/css_only/index.php
www.alistapart.com 
BTW What is the oldest browser that should be supported by the new theme? IE4.0?
[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2005 15:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26569 is a reply to message #26568] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 16:18 |
Ilia
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While tableless layout is nice, I must agree with Lukin that avoiding tables like fire and coding just to avoid them may not be such a good idea. As long as there is maybe 1-2 tables per page, IMHO that's not a problem.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26571 is a reply to message #26570] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 16:52 |
Ilia
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My problem with strict HTML formats is that they make it very difficult to add all sorts of brower specific hacks often necessary to get things to render "OK".
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26573 is a reply to message #26572] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 17:03 |
Ilia
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Well, IE maybe the one requiring most "hack", but Opera and Konqueror are definately a close 2nd and 3rd.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26575 is a reply to message #26574] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 17:12 |
Ilia
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Well, KHTML engine (somewhat tuned) is what powers Apple's Safari browser, so it's popularity is growing, making compatibility with it a concern. Opera mostly tries to emulate IE behaviour, which in many cases means that the same hacks used for IE also solve issues on Opera.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26576 is a reply to message #26570] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 18:09 |
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Lukin
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| JamesS wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 12:44 |
I have an idea or two that doesn't involve using tables for layout. My Calculus II final is one week from today and I hope to be able to work on it after that; right now I have to catch up in class 
Any way, if done correctly, a layout done without tables is going to make the forum quicker (and I know how much you like speed). The typical use of tables for layout creates a lot of overhead that has to be re-downloaded every page view. I don't agree with everyone's desire to use the transitional doctype nor their need to use XHTML. The first is just lazy and the second has no viable, cross-browser, implementation IMHO.
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Tables are bad when you use them for purely visual purposes, like making a menu in table. But they are excellent for presenting sorted data, something like a table of topics with an info about topic starter, date of last post, etc. This part of forum is something like an Excel sheet - making such thing in div's has no sense. Tables are not "banned" in XHTML, they just should not be used for "description of a layout".
| Ilia wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 13:12 |
Well, KHTML engine (somewhat tuned) is what powers Apple's Safari browser, so it's popularity is growing, making compatibility with it a concern. Opera mostly tries to emulate IE behaviour, which in many cases means that the same hacks used for IE also solve issues on Opera.
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You're talking about some old version of Opera. The one and only version of this browser which emulated IE was 7.01. It was in use for a shor period of time - producer quickly updated it to 7.23. The newest one is Opera 8 and it has one of the best css support on the market.
The newest version of Safari (not officialy released yet) has it even better than Opera - it was the first browser which passed Acid2 test. To this day only two browsers pass this test: Konqueror and iCab.
Well, imho strict XHTML is a big problem only for older browsers like IE4 and IE5. Making a layout for IE6 is not that complicated and don't need so many hacks - of course if your layout is not that complicated
I reply my question to forum developers: What is the oldest browser that should be supported by the new theme?
And a second question: opening links in new windows (using target="_blank") is not allowed in xhtml 1.0 strict. So the question is: do I have to modify the forum code and remove "target" parameters from an [ URL] code, etc. or better use transitional xhtml in a theme?
P.S. I know that opening a page in new window can be done by javascript, so that could be a good substitute for "target" parm, but then again newer browsers could treat such link as an pop-up window.
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26577 is a reply to message #26576] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 18:32 |
Ilia
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| Lukin wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 14:09 |
I reply my question to forum developers: What is the oldest browser that should be supported by the new theme?
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At this time I'd say IE 5.0, according my quick search on browser usage sites it still comprises 5-8% of the overall browser market. I'd consider IE 6.0 specific themes as long as they can me made to look reasonably well in IE 5.0. I suspect & hope that within 6 month or so IE 5.0 usage will drop well below 5% mark.
| Quote: |
And a second question: opening links in new windows (using target="_blank") is not allowed in xhtml 1.0 strict. So the question is: do I have to modify the forum code and remove "target" parameters from an [ URL] code, etc. or better use transitional xhtml in a theme?
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Let's use transitional if that allows us to keep target, it seems to me removing a non-javascript way of handling new window creation was a REALLY bad idea on behalf of the spec writers.
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P.S. I know that opening a page in new window can be done by javascript, so that could be a good substitute for "target" parm, but then again newer browsers could treat such link as an pop-up window.
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There is the issue of people disabling JavaScript all together.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26579 is a reply to message #26578] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 19:13 |
Ilia
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| JamesS wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 15:01 |
As for the target problem. Why not use javascript? One of the requirements for FUDforum is that javascript must be enabled. Since FUDforum already relies on javascript so heavily what is wrong with adding one more little function to handle opening new windows? Plus, with javascript turned off the link would work like the user expects it to. I know that I never expect links to open in a new window, unless the site has conditioned me to, and get upset when they do.
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That's not true, if you disable JavaScript you will still be able to use the forum without any problems. The only instances where lack JavaScript will become apperent is automatic styling tools on post page and a 2-3 non-critial popups.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #26728 is a reply to message #26605] |
Sun, 07 August 2005 18:56 |
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Wild_Cat
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| ligesh ÐÉÓÁÌ(Á) þÔ×, 28 éÀÌÑ 2005 23:40 |
| Ilia wrote on Thu, 28 July 2005 16:12 |
IMHO that's a bad idea, FUDforum used to arrange messages like this in the past.
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Didn't 2.5 have the userinfo on the left. Anyway please have at least one skin in this format. The user-info on the left also doubles as a margin, which is what makes this particular layout look good.
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I sign under that. You know, Ilia, there was quite a number of people desiring it back, I remember. The fact that you find it ineffective in one way doesn't mean we don't find it effective in another way. I would also like to contribute since I long had thoughts of completely redesigning the layout (I don't like this one for more reasons, including listing of tpoics and forums too for taking some data out of the tables), but I doubt I'll have time, unfortunately. I hope someone comes up indeed with something really different from this one.
Lady of Avalon
[Updated on: Sun, 07 August 2005 18:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #27530 is a reply to message #27521] |
Sun, 11 September 2005 17:17 |
Ilia
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| Malachi Knight wrote on Sat, 10 September 2005 10:24 |
Note: Is there a color scheme you have in mind?
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I'd prefer to stick with neutral colors such as blue, since afterall the "default' theme should be flexible enough to work in nearly all situations without requiring much tweaking.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #28313 is a reply to message #28311] |
Mon, 17 October 2005 15:47 |
Ilia
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Looks good, I like your choice of colors, although the "native" icons for read/unread status look a bit out of place. Perhaps they need to have their colors adjusted to match the theme better?
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: FUDforum Layout Contest!!! [message #28773 is a reply to message #28754] |
Fri, 11 November 2005 14:24 |
Ilia
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There is a reason why there are so many styles, I think you'll agree with it in a moment. If there were fewer styles more parts of the forum would be goverened by the same style, making most changes very wide spread, much more so then the designer may may want. This would mean that many of the layout changes would need to be done in individual templates, making the process of customizing the forum's appearance more complicated.
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