| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178532 is a reply to message #178531] |
Thu, 28 June 2012 12:40   |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 6/28/2012 7:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Am 27.06.2012 10:11, schrieb M. Strobel:
>
>> Am 27.06.2012 04:36, schrieb Arno Welzel:
>>> M. Strobel, 25.06.2012 19:17:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> Ah, small mind. What could PHP do without Apache servers?
>>>
>>> A lot. PHP runs fine without Apache and Apache is not the only web
>>> server which supports PHP.
>>
>> Yea, the SAPI list is quite long.
>>
>>> nginx is another popular example and even IIS
>>> can be used to host PHP.
>>
>> Popular is not quite the word, with a market share in the sub percent
>> range.
>
> nginx has a market share of more than 11%:
>
> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/web_server/all>
>
> And if you look at the trend graphs you will see that the usage of
> Apache and IIS both decline, while nginx increases - i assume that
> people move from Apache/IIS to nginx for good reasons.
>
> And if you don't believe w3techs.com:
>
> < http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2012/01/03/january-2012-web-server-survey .html>
>
>
> Ok - maybe only a few nginx servers also use PHP - but nginx itself is
> popular.
>
>> But I completely agree to "even" ...
>
> Why? The "traditional" platform for IIS hosted applications is C# and
> ASP.NET, not PHP.
>
It is? I know a lot of sites hosted on IIS which use PHP. Those who
what to use .NET and C# have to use IIS. But that is not the only thing
they run.
> Also see:
>
> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all>
>
> Since IIS has a market share of 18% but ASP.NET is at about 21% it seems
> to be obvious, that most IIS installations don't use PHP and some .NET
> applications are hosted in Mono environments.
>
>
That's not obvious at all.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178534 is a reply to message #178532] |
Thu, 28 June 2012 14:16 |
Arno Welzel
Messages: 317
Registered: October 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Am 28.06.2012 14:40, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
> On 6/28/2012 7:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>> Also see:
>>
>> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all>
>>
>> Since IIS has a market share of 18% but ASP.NET is at about 21% it seems
>> to be obvious, that most IIS installations don't use PHP and some .NET
>> applications are hosted in Mono environments.
>
> That's not obvious at all.
Why not? What is the mistake in this comparison?
21% use ASP.NET and 18% use IIS. So i assume most of the ASP.NET based
websites run on IIS, since ASP.NET is the "native" Environment for IIS,
even though it is possible to use PHP as well or .NET on
non-Windows-Systems using Mono.
Do you have a source about how many IIS servers run PHP instead of .NET
and how many Linux servers run Mono instead of PHP?
--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178535 is a reply to message #178534] |
Thu, 28 June 2012 15:44 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 6/28/2012 10:16 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Am 28.06.2012 14:40, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>
>> On 6/28/2012 7:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> [...]
>>> Also see:
>>>
>>> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all>
>>>
>>> Since IIS has a market share of 18% but ASP.NET is at about 21% it seems
>>> to be obvious, that most IIS installations don't use PHP and some .NET
>>> applications are hosted in Mono environments.
>>
>> That's not obvious at all.
>
> Why not? What is the mistake in this comparison?
>
> 21% use ASP.NET and 18% use IIS. So i assume most of the ASP.NET based
> websites run on IIS, since ASP.NET is the "native" Environment for IIS,
> even though it is possible to use PHP as well or .NET on
> non-Windows-Systems using Mono.
>
> Do you have a source about how many IIS servers run PHP instead of .NET
> and how many Linux servers run Mono instead of PHP?
>
Your fallacy is that you are assuming IIS servers run only .NET and none
run PHP. That is provably false. Many IIS servers also run PHP. They
also run Perl, for instance.
And you *can* run .NET using Mono - but it doesn't work very well.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178537 is a reply to message #178535] |
Thu, 28 June 2012 16:01 |
Arno Welzel
Messages: 317
Registered: October 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jerry Stuckle, 28.06.2012 17:44:
> On 6/28/2012 10:16 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Am 28.06.2012 14:40, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>
>>> On 6/28/2012 7:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> Also see:
>>>>
>>>> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all>
>>>>
>>>> Since IIS has a market share of 18% but ASP.NET is at about 21% it
>>>> seems
>>>> to be obvious, that most IIS installations don't use PHP and some .NET
>>>> applications are hosted in Mono environments.
>>>
>>> That's not obvious at all.
>>
>> Why not? What is the mistake in this comparison?
>>
>> 21% use ASP.NET and 18% use IIS. So i assume most of the ASP.NET based
>> websites run on IIS, since ASP.NET is the "native" Environment for IIS,
>> even though it is possible to use PHP as well or .NET on
>> non-Windows-Systems using Mono.
>>
>> Do you have a source about how many IIS servers run PHP instead of .NET
>> and how many Linux servers run Mono instead of PHP?
>>
>
> Your fallacy is that you are assuming IIS servers run only .NET and none
Maybe you misunderstood me - i did not say, they run *only* .NET.
I just assume, that most .NET based websites are hosted on IIS. This
does not mean, that PHP can not used there as well - just read what i wrote.
But IIS is usually not the first choice when you don't need .NET at all.
> run PHP. That is provably false. Many IIS servers also run PHP. They
> also run Perl, for instance.
>
> And you *can* run .NET using Mono - but it doesn't work very well.
That's the reason why i assumed, that most .NET based applications run
on IIS and only a little percentage on Mono.
--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178538 is a reply to message #178537] |
Thu, 28 June 2012 19:05 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 6/28/2012 12:01 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle, 28.06.2012 17:44:
>
>> On 6/28/2012 10:16 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Am 28.06.2012 14:40, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>
>>>> On 6/28/2012 7:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> > Also see:
>>>> >
>>>> > <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all>
>>>> >
>>>> > Since IIS has a market share of 18% but ASP.NET is at about 21% it
>>>> > seems
>>>> > to be obvious, that most IIS installations don't use PHP and some .NET
>>>> > applications are hosted in Mono environments.
>>>>
>>>> That's not obvious at all.
>>>
>>> Why not? What is the mistake in this comparison?
>>>
>>> 21% use ASP.NET and 18% use IIS. So i assume most of the ASP.NET based
>>> websites run on IIS, since ASP.NET is the "native" Environment for IIS,
>>> even though it is possible to use PHP as well or .NET on
>>> non-Windows-Systems using Mono.
>>>
>>> Do you have a source about how many IIS servers run PHP instead of .NET
>>> and how many Linux servers run Mono instead of PHP?
>>>
>>
>> Your fallacy is that you are assuming IIS servers run only .NET and none
>
> Maybe you misunderstood me - i did not say, they run *only* .NET.
>
> I just assume, that most .NET based websites are hosted on IIS. This
> does not mean, that PHP can not used there as well - just read what i wrote.
>
> But IIS is usually not the first choice when you don't need .NET at all.
>
>> run PHP. That is provably false. Many IIS servers also run PHP. They
>> also run Perl, for instance.
>>
>> And you *can* run .NET using Mono - but it doesn't work very well.
>
> That's the reason why i assumed, that most .NET based applications run
> on IIS and only a little percentage on Mono.
>
>
But you said "... most IIS installations don't use PHP..." - which is a
false assumption from those figures.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178544 is a reply to message #178531] |
Fri, 29 June 2012 12:32 |
M. Strobel
Messages: 386
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Am 28.06.2012 13:18, schrieb Arno Welzel:
> Am 27.06.2012 10:11, schrieb M. Strobel:
>
>> Am 27.06.2012 04:36, schrieb Arno Welzel:
>>> M. Strobel, 25.06.2012 19:17:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> Ah, small mind. What could PHP do without Apache servers?
>>>
>>> A lot. PHP runs fine without Apache and Apache is not the only web
>>> server which supports PHP.
>>
>> Yea, the SAPI list is quite long.
>>
>>> nginx is another popular example and even IIS
>>> can be used to host PHP.
>>
>> Popular is not quite the word, with a market share in the sub percent range.
>
> nginx has a market share of more than 11%:
>
> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/web_server/all>
>
My data is from 2010, so there is a big change. Interesting.
When "(internal dummy connection)" started to show up in the apache log files it was
quite clear to me the developers took a wrong turn. But this is quite OT.
/Str
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178545 is a reply to message #178539] |
Fri, 29 June 2012 12:40 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 6/29/2012 5:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Am 28.06.2012 21:05, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>
> [...]
>> But you said "... most IIS installations don't use PHP..." - which is a
>> false assumption from those figures.
>
> Do you have *any* statistics about the number of IIS servers which run PHP?
>
No accurate ones, but then the ones shown are not accurate, either.
However, if you *understood* statistics, you would realize you are
making a conclusion the data do not support.
>
> Of course you may assume that only about 80% of the existing Apache
> based websites use PHP and half of the IIS based websites also run PHP
> besides ASP.NET - but this is pure speculation. If you have better
> sources, let me know, thanks.
>
Your assumptions are not even speculation.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178546 is a reply to message #178544] |
Fri, 29 June 2012 12:41 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 6/29/2012 8:32 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
> Am 28.06.2012 13:18, schrieb Arno Welzel:
>> Am 27.06.2012 10:11, schrieb M. Strobel:
>>
>>> Am 27.06.2012 04:36, schrieb Arno Welzel:
>>>> M. Strobel, 25.06.2012 19:17:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>> > Ah, small mind. What could PHP do without Apache servers?
>>>>
>>>> A lot. PHP runs fine without Apache and Apache is not the only web
>>>> server which supports PHP.
>>>
>>> Yea, the SAPI list is quite long.
>>>
>>>> nginx is another popular example and even IIS
>>>> can be used to host PHP.
>>>
>>> Popular is not quite the word, with a market share in the sub percent range.
>>
>> nginx has a market share of more than 11%:
>>
>> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/web_server/all>
>>
>
> My data is from 2010, so there is a big change. Interesting.
>
> When "(internal dummy connection)" started to show up in the apache log files it was
> quite clear to me the developers took a wrong turn. But this is quite OT.
>
> /Str
>
Don't worry about it - the statistics are not accurate. See how they
were collected. Not a scientific survey, at all.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178549 is a reply to message #178545] |
Sat, 30 June 2012 10:26 |
Arno Welzel
Messages: 317
Registered: October 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jerry Stuckle, 29.06.2012 14:40:
> On 6/29/2012 5:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Am 28.06.2012 21:05, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>
>> [...]
>>> But you said "... most IIS installations don't use PHP..." - which is a
>>> false assumption from those figures.
>>
>> Do you have *any* statistics about the number of IIS servers which run
>> PHP?
>>
>
> No accurate ones, but then the ones shown are not accurate, either.
Are any on them available online?
> However, if you *understood* statistics, you would realize you are
> making a conclusion the data do not support.
I do understand that the number of specific web servers has nothing to
do with the used server side languages - that's why i asked.
>> Of course you may assume that only about 80% of the existing Apache
>> based websites use PHP and half of the IIS based websites also run PHP
>> besides ASP.NET - but this is pure speculation. If you have better
>> sources, let me know, thanks.
>
> Your assumptions are not even speculation.
Just show me your statistics which prove, that a significant number of
the existing IIS based hosts is used for PHP.
--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178551 is a reply to message #178549] |
Sat, 30 June 2012 12:07 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 6/30/2012 6:26 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle, 29.06.2012 14:40:
>
>> On 6/29/2012 5:18 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Am 28.06.2012 21:05, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> But you said "... most IIS installations don't use PHP..." - which is a
>>>> false assumption from those figures.
>>>
>>> Do you have *any* statistics about the number of IIS servers which run
>>> PHP?
>>>
>>
>> No accurate ones, but then the ones shown are not accurate, either.
>
> Are any on them available online?
>
Why don't you look?
>> However, if you *understood* statistics, you would realize you are
>> making a conclusion the data do not support.
>
> I do understand that the number of specific web servers has nothing to
> do with the used server side languages - that's why i asked.
>
If you understood statistics, you would understand the concept of
"fallacious conclusion" and why your statement falls under that.
>>> Of course you may assume that only about 80% of the existing Apache
>>> based websites use PHP and half of the IIS based websites also run PHP
>>> besides ASP.NET - but this is pure speculation. If you have better
>>> sources, let me know, thanks.
>>
>> Your assumptions are not even speculation.
>
> Just show me your statistics which prove, that a significant number of
> the existing IIS based hosts is used for PHP.
>
>
I'm not even going to bother, because it's meaningless - except to a
troll, anyway. Just because your "statistics" are completely worthless
doesn't mean I need to show you anything else. If you want good
statistics, YOU find good statistics.
But first you need to learn what valid statistics are, and how they are
collected and analyzed. You have shown you understand neither.
Now go crawl back in your troll hole.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178552 is a reply to message #178550] |
Sat, 30 June 2012 12:08 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 6/30/2012 6:28 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle, 29.06.2012 14:41:
>
>> On 6/29/2012 8:32 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>> Am 28.06.2012 13:18, schrieb Arno Welzel:
> [...]
>>>> nginx has a market share of more than 11%:
>>>>
>>>> <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/web_server/all>
>>>>
>>>
>>> My data is from 2010, so there is a big change. Interesting.
>>>
>>> When "(internal dummy connection)" started to show up in the apache
>>> log files it was
>>> quite clear to me the developers took a wrong turn. But this is quite OT.
>>>
>>> /Str
>>>
>>
>> Don't worry about it - the statistics are not accurate. See how they
>> were collected. Not a scientific survey, at all.
>
> Feel free to point to a better survey.
>
>
Feel free to find your own survey. Just because I point out the survey
is completely inaccurate does not mean I need to find an accurate one.
YOU want the valid statistics, so YOU go find them. But before you do,
you need to understand how VALID statistics are compiled and analyzed.
Now go crawl back in your little troll hole.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178553 is a reply to message #178552] |
Sat, 30 June 2012 14:48 |
Arno Welzel
Messages: 317
Registered: October 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jerry Stuckle, 30.06.2012 14:08:
> On 6/30/2012 6:28 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle, 29.06.2012 14:41:
>>
>>> On 6/29/2012 8:32 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>>> Am 28.06.2012 13:18, schrieb Arno Welzel:
>> [...]
>>>> > nginx has a market share of more than 11%:
>>>> >
>>>> > <http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/web_server/all>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> My data is from 2010, so there is a big change. Interesting.
>>>>
>>>> When "(internal dummy connection)" started to show up in the apache
>>>> log files it was
>>>> quite clear to me the developers took a wrong turn. But this is
>>>> quite OT.
>>>>
>>>> /Str
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don't worry about it - the statistics are not accurate. See how they
>>> were collected. Not a scientific survey, at all.
>>
>> Feel free to point to a better survey.
>>
>>
>
> Feel free to find your own survey. Just because I point out the survey
> is completely inaccurate does not mean I need to find an accurate one.
In this case your statement is just meaningless.
> YOU want the valid statistics, so YOU go find them. But before you do,
> you need to understand how VALID statistics are compiled and analyzed.
>
> Now go crawl back in your little troll hole.
Same to you - thanks.
--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178574 is a reply to message #178551] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 10:20 |
Arno Welzel
Messages: 317
Registered: October 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Am 30.06.2012 14:07, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
> On 6/30/2012 6:26 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>> Just show me your statistics which prove, that a significant number of
>> the existing IIS based hosts is used for PHP.
>
> I'm not even going to bother, because it's meaningless - except to a
> troll, anyway. Just because your "statistics" are completely worthless
> doesn't mean I need to show you anything else. If you want good
> statistics, YOU find good statistics.
Ok - until then i just don't believe you that a significant percentage
of the existing IIS installations are used to host PHP, since this is
pure speculation as well.
--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178576 is a reply to message #178574] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 12:44 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 7/3/2012 6:20 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Am 30.06.2012 14:07, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>
>> On 6/30/2012 6:26 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> [...]
>>> Just show me your statistics which prove, that a significant number of
>>> the existing IIS based hosts is used for PHP.
>>
>> I'm not even going to bother, because it's meaningless - except to a
>> troll, anyway. Just because your "statistics" are completely worthless
>> doesn't mean I need to show you anything else. If you want good
>> statistics, YOU find good statistics.
>
> Ok - until then i just don't believe you that a significant percentage
> of the existing IIS installations are used to host PHP, since this is
> pure speculation as well.
>
>
No one else here gives a shit what you believe.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apache and php to show http request headers. [message #178577 is a reply to message #178576] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 14:02 |
Arno Welzel
Messages: 317
Registered: October 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Am 03.07.2012 14:44, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
> On 7/3/2012 6:20 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Am 30.06.2012 14:07, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>
>>> On 6/30/2012 6:26 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> Just show me your statistics which prove, that a significant number of
>>>> the existing IIS based hosts is used for PHP.
>>>
>>> I'm not even going to bother, because it's meaningless - except to a
>>> troll, anyway. Just because your "statistics" are completely worthless
>>> doesn't mean I need to show you anything else. If you want good
>>> statistics, YOU find good statistics.
>>
>> Ok - until then i just don't believe you that a significant percentage
>> of the existing IIS installations are used to host PHP, since this is
>> pure speculation as well.
>>
>>
>
> No one else here gives a shit what you believe.
No one else here gives a shit what you say about IIS and PHP.
F'up to poster.
--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
|
|
|
|
Calendar
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
]