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Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? [message #180149 is a reply to message #180148] Tue, 15 January 2013 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Arno Welzel is currently offline  Arno Welzel
Messages: 317
Registered: October 2011
Karma:
Senior Member
Am 15.01.2013 14:28, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

> On 15/01/13 10:36, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Am 04.01.2013 19:13, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
[...]
>>> I was writing code long before we HAD IDEs. And once you had blown the
>>> EAROM you had to guess at why it didn't work. Because we didn't have
>>> enough ICES to go round.
>> [...]
>>
>> The had the first IDEs including source level debuggers in the late
>> 1980s long before Windows or Linux became popular as they are today (and
>> when i started software development, Windows 3.1 didn't even exist) -
>> and yes, i really liked the opportunity to have "projects" and
>> debugging. Just because it is technically possible to do something
>> without a special tool it does not mean that using better tools is not
>> wise.
>>
>> BTW: The GNU Debugger was created in 1986.
>>
>>> BECAUSE we were professionals we learnt to write code in such a way that
>>> the chances of a bug were very very low.
>>>
>>> Its hackers who use IDES to throw code together, and then spend the next
>>> day bodging it until it works, simply because they have the tools that
>>> make debugging easier than writing proper code in the first place.
>>
>> I doubt that you ever did projects with thousands line of code from
>> scratch and more than one person working on the same project this way.
>>
>>
> I can assure you I did.
[...]
> I may these days hack with less comments, but if my code does NOT work I
> go back to that style of comment. At least it reminds me weeks later
> what the code is SUPPOSED to do, even if it doesn't.

Using comments is still wise - even today with the most fancy IDE.

> I've found aids good for syntax bugs, but not for logical bugs.
>
> A proper compiler and proper language that requires explicit
> declarations of variables takes care of most of the syntax.
>
> The logic? that you have to figure out the hard way.

Yep - and if you use a compiler you sometimes have to deal with
"optimizations" too :-/

> But at least if the comment sasy 'check dumledore has been initialised
> by Hogwarts' and the code says otherwise, you have a hint...
>
> The trouble is PHP allows lazy coding. Type $dumbledore and its not
> clear whether the variable is being assigned, set, or both. Slack typing
> means that you need === as well as == and = ...
>
> It truly is a hackers language.

Well - this is not so surprising, since PHP was originally not created
to be a programming language but nothing more as a toolkit to create
HTML documents. If PHP would ever invent stricter rules, most existing
code would not work any longer - then most people would start to think
about alternatives to PHP anyway. So PHP has to keep this "lazy" nature
as long it exists :-/


--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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