| how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180883] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 08:44  |
Nagaraju Kachapuram
Messages: 14
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hi,
I have a hit counter and visitors who are online in my webpage. I want to save the visitors IP addresses permanently (I will remove it manually). How can I code this? I am using a download file called visitors.php. I tried increasing the sessionTime.
Here it is.
<?php
$dataFile = "visitors.txt";
$sessionTime = 15; //this is the time in **minutes** to consider someone online before removing them from our file
//Please do not edit bellow this line
error_reporting(E_ERROR | E_PARSE);
if(!file_exists($dataFile)) {
$fp = fopen($dataFile, "w+");
fclose($fp);
}
$ip = $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'];
$users = array();
$onusers = array();
//getting
$fp = fopen($dataFile, "r");
flock($fp, LOCK_SH);
while(!feof($fp)) {
$users[] = rtrim(fgets($fp, 32));
}
flock($fp, LOCK_UN);
fclose($fp);
//cleaning
$x = 0;
$alreadyIn = FALSE;
foreach($users as $key => $data) {
list( , $lastvisit) = explode("|", $data);
if(time() - $lastvisit >= $sessionTime * 60) {
$users[$x] = "";
} else {
if(strpos($data, $ip) !== FALSE) {
$alreadyIn = TRUE;
$users[$x] = "$ip|" . time(); //updating
}
}
$x++;
}
if($alreadyIn == FALSE) {
$users[] = "$ip|" . time();
}
//writing
$fp = fopen($dataFile, "w+");
flock($fp, LOCK_EX);
$i = 0;
foreach($users as $single) {
if($single != "") {
fwrite($fp, $single . "\r\n");
$i++;
}
}
flock($fp, LOCK_UN);
fclose($fp);
if($uo_keepquiet != TRUE) {
//echo '<div style="padding:5px; margin:auto; background-color:#fff"><b>' . $i . ' visitors online</b></div>';
}
?>
Thank you.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180884 is a reply to message #180883] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 11:11  |
Olaf S.
Messages: 10
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Am 25.03.2013 09:44, schrieb nag:
> Hi,
>
> I have a hit counter and visitors who are online in my webpage. I want to save the visitors IP addresses permanently (I will remove it manually). How can I code this? I am using a download file called visitors.php. I tried increasing the sessionTime.
>
> Here it is.
>
REMOVE:
> $sessionTime = 15; //this is the time in **minutes** to consider someone online before removing them from our file
>
REMOVE:
> //cleaning
> $x = 0;
> $alreadyIn = FALSE;
> foreach($users as $key => $data) {
> list( , $lastvisit) = explode("|", $data);
> if(time() - $lastvisit >= $sessionTime * 60) {
> $users[$x] = "";
> } else {
> if(strpos($data, $ip) !== FALSE) {
> $alreadyIn = TRUE;
> $users[$x] = "$ip|" . time(); //updating
> }
> }
> $x++;
> }
>
REPLACE:
> if($alreadyIn == FALSE) {
> $users[] = "$ip|" . time();
> }
TO:
$users[] = "$ip|" . time();
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180885 is a reply to message #180883] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 11:13 |
Salvatore
Messages: 38
Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 2013-03-25, nag <visitnag(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
> I have a hit counter and visitors who are online in my webpage. I want to
> save the visitors IP addresses permanently (I will remove it manually).
> How can I code this? I am using a download file called visitors.php. I
> tried increasing the sessionTime.
You copied and pasted the code you included from another site, and it
isn't working for you, so you're asking us how to make it work, right?
--
Blah blah bleh...
GCS/CM d(-)@>-- s+:- !a C++$ UBL++++$ L+$ W+++$ w M++ Y++ b++
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180886 is a reply to message #180885] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 11:36 |
Nagaraju Kachapuram
Messages: 14
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Monday, 25 March 2013 16:43:03 UTC+5:30, Salvatore wrote:
> On 2013-03-25, nag <visitnag(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> I have a hit counter and visitors who are online in my webpage. I want to
>
>> save the visitors IP addresses permanently (I will remove it manually).
>
>> How can I code this? I am using a download file called visitors.php. I
>
>> tried increasing the sessionTime.
>
>
>
> You copied and pasted the code you included from another site, and it
>
> isn't working for you, so you're asking us how to make it work, right?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Blah blah bleh...
>
> GCS/CM d(-)@>-- s+:- !a C++$ UBL++++$ L+$ W+++$ w M++ Y++ b++
sorry to bother you. I have told clearly it is a downloaded one. As I am a beginner I could not understand the code. I tried my best to change it.
Thank you.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180887 is a reply to message #180883] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 12:28 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 4:44 AM, nag wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a hit counter and visitors who are online in my webpage. I want to save the visitors IP addresses permanently (I will remove it manually). How can I code this? I am using a download file called visitors.php. I tried increasing the sessionTime.
>
> Here it is.
>
>
<snip code>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any time,
and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same IP
address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request with
all of it's images) but nothing more.
If you're having problems with code you download, the first thing to do
is ask the author of the code. And don't expect to be able to just
download code and insert it into your page(s). With ANY programming
language, you need to understand the code to use it properly. This is
especially true with PHP.
Nothing in this code is very complicated. Have you even tried to
understand it?
But if you insist on going down this dead-end path, you need to tell us
WHY it doesn't work.
And BTW - if I WERE to insist on trying to do this (which I wouldn't),
I'd use a SQL database to store the information. Much better.
What you REALLY should do is get a decent log analyzer for your web
server logs. It will tell you what you're looking for and a lot more.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180888 is a reply to message #180887] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 12:42 |
Tim Streater
Messages: 328
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
> You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any time,
> and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same IP
> address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
> address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request with
> all of it's images) but nothing more.
1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP for a
static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
page request only is complete nonsense.
--
Tim
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180889 is a reply to message #180888] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 13:02 |
Scott Johnson
Messages: 196
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 5:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>
>> You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any
>> time, and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same
>> IP address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
>> address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request
>> with all of it's images) but nothing more.
>
> 1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
Who Cares?
>
> 2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
Who Cares?
>
> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
> unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP for a
> static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
I do not use DSL so when does mine change?
>
> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
> page request only is complete nonsense.
Can you quote where he said "it's valid for one page request only"?
Everything JS said is valid as a general across the board statement and
advice.
I have seen code (js) even try to grab browser fingerprint details
combined with IP and that can be spoofed.
What is your suggestion TS to the OPs' question?
Scotty
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180890 is a reply to message #180889] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 13:09 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 25/03/13 13:02, Scott Johnson wrote:
> I have seen code (js) even try to grab browser fingerprint details
> combined with IP and that can be spoofed.
>
Can you explain to me how your web server sends a packet back to a
spoofed IP address?
I, and about 30billion hackers have been trying to do that for years. I
think there is a nobel prize on offer..
> What is your suggestion TS to the OPs' question?
>
> Scotty
>
>
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180891 is a reply to message #180888] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 13:22 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 8:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>
>> You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any
>> time, and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same
>> IP address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
>> address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request
>> with all of it's images) but nothing more.
>
> 1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
>
Stuff it.
> 2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
>
Stuff it.
> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
> unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP for a
> static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
>
That is true in YOUR case. DHCP addresses may be valid for as little as
30 minutes to as long as one year. It all depends on who's assigning
the dynamic IP (it is NOT always the ISP!).
Additionally, that does not mean you will keep the same IP address. It
is not at all uncommon for a company to use multiple proxies, for
instance. In that case each request can come through a different proxy
- even requests for images on the page may come through a different
proxy than the original page request. AOL does this, as well as many
major companies.
> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
> page request only is complete nonsense.
>
Your entire update is complete nonsense. You only make a fool of
yourself when you correct someone with incorrect information.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180892 is a reply to message #180890] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 13:26 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 9:09 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/03/13 13:02, Scott Johnson wrote:
>
>> I have seen code (js) even try to grab browser fingerprint details
>> combined with IP and that can be spoofed.
>>
>
> Can you explain to me how your web server sends a packet back to a
> spoofed IP address?
>
He never said that happened. But you don't understand it.
> I, and about 30billion hackers have been trying to do that for years. I
> think there is a nobel prize on offer..
>
Ah, there's the rub. Not only can't you count (30 billion hackers?),
you finally admit you're a hacker.
At last a piece of truth. We know you're neither a programmer nor an
electrical engineer.
But that's how trolls work.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180893 is a reply to message #180889] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 13:34 |
Tim Streater
Messages: 328
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <kiphri$tch$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
Scott Johnson <noonehome(at)chalupasworld(dot)com> wrote:
> On 3/25/2013 5:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>>
>>> You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any
>>> time, and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same
>>> IP address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
>>> address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request
>>> with all of it's images) but nothing more.
>>
>> 1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
>
> Who Cares?
>
>>
>> 2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
>
> Who Cares?
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together, ISTM.
>> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
>> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
>> unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP for a
>> static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
>
> I do not use DSL so when does mine change?
Who says that it does?
>> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
>> page request only is complete nonsense.
>
> Can you quote where he said "it's valid for one page request only"?
Where he said:
"An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request with all of
it's images) but nothing more."
Note that I've left his egregious hayseed grammatical errors in.
--
Tim
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180894 is a reply to message #180893] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 14:54 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 25/03/13 13:34, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <kiphri$tch$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
> Scott Johnson <noonehome(at)chalupasworld(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/25/2013 5:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
>>> In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any
>>>> time, and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same
>>>> IP address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
>>>> address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request
>>>> with all of it's images) but nothing more.
>>>
>>> 1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
>>
>> Who Cares?
>>
>>>
>>> 2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
>>
>> Who Cares?
>
> Anyone with two brain cells to rub together, ISTM.
>
>
>>> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
>>> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
>>> unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP
>> for a
>>> static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
>>
>> I do not use DSL so when does mine change?
>
> Who says that it does?
>
>>> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
>>> page request only is complete nonsense.
>>
>> Can you quote where he said "it's valid for one page request only"?
>
> Where he said:
>
> "An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request with all of
> it's images) but nothing more."
>
in reality its valid for a whole series of page requests.If the browser
does persistent connections
"In HTTP 1.1, all connections are considered persistent unless declared
otherwise.[1] The HTTP persistent connections do not use separate
keepalive messages, they just allow multiple requests to use a single
connection. However, the default connection timeout of Apache 2.0
httpd[2] is as little as 15 seconds[3] and for Apache 2.2 only 5
seconds.[4] The advantage of a short timeout is the ability to deliver
multiple components of a web page quickly while not consuming resources
to run multiple server processes or threads for too long.[5]"
> Note that I've left his egregious hayseed grammatical errors in.
>
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180895 is a reply to message #180890] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 16:55 |
Scott Johnson
Messages: 196
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 6:09 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/03/13 13:02, Scott Johnson wrote:
>
>> I have seen code (js) even try to grab browser fingerprint details
>> combined with IP and that can be spoofed.
>>
>
> Can you explain to me how your web server sends a packet back to a
> spoofed IP address?
>
> I, and about 30billion hackers have been trying to do that for years. I
> think there is a nobel prize on offer..
>
>
>
>> What is your suggestion TS to the OPs' question?
>>
>> Scotty
>>
>>
>
>
I did not mean to spoof the IP. I should of been more clear. I meant
the browser credentials.
Scotty
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180896 is a reply to message #180893] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 17:03 |
Scott Johnson
Messages: 196
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 6:34 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <kiphri$tch$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
> Scott Johnson <noonehome(at)chalupasworld(dot)com> wrote:
>
<snip>
>>> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
>>> page request only is complete nonsense.
>>
>> Can you quote where he said "it's valid for one page request only"?
>
> Where he said:
>
> "An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request with all of
> it's images) but nothing more."
>
OK I concede, sort of. I think the key word in his statement is 'valid'.
But I am sure you may be able to find a way around it.
Scotty
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180897 is a reply to message #180894] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 17:24 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 10:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/03/13 13:34, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <kiphri$tch$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
>> Scott Johnson <noonehome(at)chalupasworld(dot)com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/25/2013 5:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>> In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any
>>>> > time, and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same
>>>> > IP address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
>>>> > address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request
>>>> > with all of it's images) but nothing more.
>>>>
>>>> 1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
>>>
>>> Who Cares?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
>>>
>>> Who Cares?
>>
>> Anyone with two brain cells to rub together, ISTM.
>>
>>
>>>> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
>>>> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
>>>> unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP
>>> for a
>>>> static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
>>>
>>> I do not use DSL so when does mine change?
>>
>> Who says that it does?
>>
>>>> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
>>>> page request only is complete nonsense.
>>>
>>> Can you quote where he said "it's valid for one page request only"?
>>
>> Where he said:
>>
>> "An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request with all of
>> it's images) but nothing more."
>>
> in reality its valid for a whole series of page requests.If the browser
> does persistent connections
>
> "In HTTP 1.1, all connections are considered persistent unless declared
> otherwise.[1] The HTTP persistent connections do not use separate
> keepalive messages, they just allow multiple requests to use a single
> connection. However, the default connection timeout of Apache 2.0
> httpd[2] is as little as 15 seconds[3] and for Apache 2.2 only 5
> seconds.[4] The advantage of a short timeout is the ability to deliver
> multiple components of a web page quickly while not consuming resources
> to run multiple server processes or threads for too long.[5]"
>
>
Which has absolutely nothing to do with DHCP and dynamic IP address
assignment (which is handled by an entirely different server,
independent of the web browser).
But of course you're too stoopid to understand there IS a difference -
much less what that difference is.
>
>
>> Note that I've left his egregious hayseed grammatical errors in.
>>
>
>
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180898 is a reply to message #180889] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 17:25 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 9:02 AM, Scott Johnson wrote:
> On 3/25/2013 5:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <kipfqa$ib5$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>>
>>> You can't track visitors by IP. A visitor's IP can change at any
>>> time, and it is very possible to have multiple visitors from the same
>>> IP address (i.e. even at my home we have 5 computers but only 1 IP
>>> address). An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request
>>> with all of it's images) but nothing more.
>>
>> 1) In both instances above you mean "e.g." and not "i.e."
>
> Who Cares?
>
>>
>> 2) In the above, "its" does not need an apostrophe (are you a grocer?)
>
> Who Cares?
>
>>
>> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
>> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days), and will remain
>> unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked their ISP for a
>> static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
>
> I do not use DSL so when does mine change?
>
>>
>> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
>> page request only is complete nonsense.
>
> Can you quote where he said "it's valid for one page request only"?
>
> Everything JS said is valid as a general across the board statement and
> advice.
>
> I have seen code (js) even try to grab browser fingerprint details
> combined with IP and that can be spoofed.
>
> What is your suggestion TS to the OPs' question?
>
> Scotty
>
>
Scotty, you have to understand. Timmy is a troll who has to inject
something into conversations, even if it has nothing to do with the
subject (as he did here), or is incorrect (as he also did here).
He's not capable of providing positive assistance, so he has to find
ways to criticize anyone who does.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180901 is a reply to message #180889] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 18:15 |
Thomas 'PointedEars'
Messages: 701
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Johnson wrote:
> On 3/25/2013 5:42 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
>> 3) A user's IP address is typically allocated when they reboot their
>> ADSL router (e.g. mine has been up for 128 days),
Is that an invitation to crack your router/LAN?
>> and will remain unchanged for that duration. Unless, that is, they asked
>> their ISP for a static IP address in which case it won't change at all.
>
> I do not use DSL so when does mine change?
Never if your box is assigned a static or fixed IP address. However, this
has nothing to do with DSL and (A)DSL routers. It has to do with DHCP, and
applies to other IP connections as well, for example broadband cable.
There is IP masquerading as part of NAT, though, so it is possible that
different hosts in the same network have the same IP address from the
perspective of other networks (“external IP address”), including the network
the PHP host is part of.
PointedEars
--
When all you know is jQuery, every problem looks $(olvable).
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180904 is a reply to message #180903] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 00:21 |
Beauregard T. Shagnas
Messages: 154
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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richard wrote:
> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post
> of mine.
That's impossible, unless you are both behind the same router.
> So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
Well, sure. Why not? It was the most logical reason.
> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
And that has absolutely nothing to do with Usenet posting. Can't you ever
get *anything* right?
No.
--
-bts
-This space for rent, but the price is high
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180905 is a reply to message #180904] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 00:55 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 8:21 PM, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> richard wrote:
>
>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
>> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post
>> of mine.
>
> That's impossible, unless you are both behind the same router.
>
That's one possibility. Another is they both have the same ISP, and
DHCP assigned richard's old IP address to the new person.
Or they have the same ISP and that ISP is using round-robin routers,
like AOL does.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180907 is a reply to message #180903] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 01:31 |
Evan Platt
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:39:37 -0400, richard <noreply(at)example(dot)com>
wrote:
> The problem I see with capturing IP addresses is the fact that any number
> of users can use the same IP, at the same time.
*sigh* here we go again.
Yes, that is correct, however this would be people in the same
location - a hotel, or a house. Me and California and you in Texas
wouldn't have the same IP, however if I were in a hotel, I may have
the same IP as another person in the hotel.
> The IP only identifies the server, it does not identify each and every
> individual user.
No, the IP does not identify the SERVER, bullis.It identifies the
USER.
> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post of
> mine. So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
Bullshit. The odds of that are probably a billion to 1.
> What you should look into using, is a cookie.
> With a cookie, you can identify the user more accurately.
> Or at least some other means of identifying the actual machine being used.
>
> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
Some? Try everyone. If you had any credibility here bullis, you just
lost it.
> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
I've explained all of this to you a dozen times. You're either a
troll, or you're just too dumb to understand.
Let's go to fantasy land here for a minute, and pretend you have a
wife and kid. I call your house. How can I call one number, and speak
with either you, your wife, or your kid? Easily. The same way a
webhost can have multiple domains. They're all on the same physical
machine. a HTTP request contains the website the requestor is asking
for.
Perhaps it's best you stay out of a group discussing something as
advanced as PHP, and go to a group discussing... oh, I don't know,
shiny things?
--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180908 is a reply to message #180903] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 01:43 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 25/03/13 23:39, richard wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 01:44:33 -0700 (PDT), nag wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a hit counter and visitors who are online in my webpage. I want to save the visitors IP addresses permanently (I will remove it manually). How can I code this? I am using a download file called visitors.php. I tried increasing the sessionTime.
>>
>
> The problem I see with capturing IP addresses is the fact that any number
> of users can use the same IP, at the same time.
> The IP only identifies the server, it does not identify each and every
> individual user.
> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post of
> mine. So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>
> What you should look into using, is a cookie.
> With a cookie, you can identify the user more accurately.
> Or at least some other means of identifying the actual machine being used.
>
> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
>
proxy server
Used by large corporates more than by ISPs. Good way to see and control
who is browsing what. firewall out direct webaccess and make employees
go through the proxy. Then look at the logs to see who is accessing
'fluffy-muffy' pictures and who is actually doing corporate research.
And you can then block access to the lady with the fluffy muffy as well
if you want.
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180909 is a reply to message #180895] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 01:44 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 25/03/13 16:55, Scott Johnson wrote:
> On 3/25/2013 6:09 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 25/03/13 13:02, Scott Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> I have seen code (js) even try to grab browser fingerprint details
>>> combined with IP and that can be spoofed.
>>>
>>
>> Can you explain to me how your web server sends a packet back to a
>> spoofed IP address?
>>
>> I, and about 30billion hackers have been trying to do that for years. I
>> think there is a nobel prize on offer..
>>
>>
>>
>>> What is your suggestion TS to the OPs' question?
>>>
>>> Scotty
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> I did not mean to spoof the IP. I should of been more clear. I meant
> the browser credentials.
>
ah, that is of course relatively trivial..
> Scotty
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180910 is a reply to message #180907] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 01:47 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 9:31 PM, Evan Platt wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:39:37 -0400, richard <noreply(at)example(dot)com>
> wrote:
>
>> The problem I see with capturing IP addresses is the fact that any number
>> of users can use the same IP, at the same time.
>
> *sigh* here we go again.
>
> Yes, that is correct, however this would be people in the same
> location - a hotel, or a house. Me and California and you in Texas
> wouldn't have the same IP, however if I were in a hotel, I may have
> the same IP as another person in the hotel.
>
Incorrect. For instance, my wife's ex-company routed all internet from
all of their sites (in several states around the U.S.) are all routed
through the same proxy. This is quite common in larger companies; it
simplifies maintenance.
>> The IP only identifies the server, it does not identify each and every
>> individual user.
>
> No, the IP does not identify the SERVER, bullis.It identifies the
> USER.
>
In this case Richard is correct. Externally, all users behind the same
proxy or router will have the same IP address to the external world. No
one outside the LAN would have any idea what the real IP address is.
>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
>> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post of
>> mine. So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>
> Bullshit. The odds of that are probably a billion to 1.
>
Actually, quite possible. It does happen.
>> What you should look into using, is a cookie.
>> With a cookie, you can identify the user more accurately.
>> Or at least some other means of identifying the actual machine being used.
>>
>> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
>
> Some? Try everyone. If you had any credibility here bullis, you just
> lost it.
>
Nope. Only those who do not understand how ip addresses work.
And even if it were a billion to 1 - with 4 billion ip addresses out
there, chances are very high it WILL happen.
>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
>
> I've explained all of this to you a dozen times. You're either a
> troll, or you're just too dumb to understand.
>
> Let's go to fantasy land here for a minute, and pretend you have a
> wife and kid. I call your house. How can I call one number, and speak
> with either you, your wife, or your kid? Easily. The same way a
> webhost can have multiple domains. They're all on the same physical
> machine. a HTTP request contains the website the requestor is asking
> for.
>
> Perhaps it's best you stay out of a group discussing something as
> advanced as PHP, and go to a group discussing... oh, I don't know,
> shiny things?
>
Perhaps you should learn how ip assignment works before correcting
someone who obviously knows more about it than you do.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180911 is a reply to message #180896] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 01:57 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 25/03/13 17:03, Scott Johnson wrote:
> On 3/25/2013 6:34 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <kiphri$tch$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
>> Scott Johnson <noonehome(at)chalupasworld(dot)com> wrote:
>>
> <snip>
>>>> 4) So even with a dynamic IP address, to say that it's valid for one
>>>> page request only is complete nonsense.
>>>
>>> Can you quote where he said "it's valid for one page request only"?
>>
>> Where he said:
>>
>> "An IP is valid for one conversation (i.e. a page request with all of
>> it's images) but nothing more."
>>
>
> OK I concede, sort of. I think the key word in his statement is 'valid'.
>
> But I am sure you may be able to find a way around it.
>
> Scotty
>
i did all of this for a web site. Essentially each page called a common
framework , and the frame did IP capture - and indeed reverse DNS and
whois lookup on the data so I could see from time to time who was
accessing it. The data went in a database.
the results were very useful to me for the purpose that site was created
to implement, but a 1:1 correspondence with a given user and a given IP
address was simply not on.
I was able to identify companies who were perusing the site, because
they had fixed and registered IP addresses. I could not however tell how
many people within each company were accessing the site, because most of
them used proxy servers and the stuff all came from just one IP address.
Neither was the browser string much use - a lot of companies have
'corporate desktops and use identical versions of just one browser.
As far as people on dial up or dynamic adsl were concerned, all I could
say was with which ISP they were, and occasionally which geographical
location they were in.
Tracking individual users you can ONLY realistically do with cookies.
IN the UK you have to tell people you are doing that, these days and
give them the option not to be recorded.
If you are using cookies ( sessions) to preserve identity across pages
well its a trivial step to have them all in a database and display who
has been online in the last 15 minutes or whatever your cutoff point is.
Provided they have logged in at some point so you do konw who they are.
That is what most sites do, I would say.
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180912 is a reply to message #180904] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 02:01 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 26/03/13 00:21, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> richard wrote:
>
>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
>> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post
>> of mine.
>
> That's impossible, unless you are both behind the same router.
>
>> So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>
> Well, sure. Why not? It was the most logical reason.
>
>> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
>
> And that has absolutely nothing to do with Usenet posting. Can't you ever
> get *anything* right?
>
he never said it had.. its a valid question, and has peripheral bearing
on PHP so here goes.
The browser sends not only a page request, but the name of the site to
which it wants to connect. Apache is smart enough to look at that info
and decide on that basis where the request will be vectored.
Sop conceptually the full address of the web server at 'machine level'
is e.g.
207.138.56.127:80:www.thisserver.com
IP address : port: name of this server
> No.
>
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180913 is a reply to message #180906] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 02:10 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 26/03/13 01:01, Paul Herber wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 00:21:43 +0000 (UTC), "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
> <a(dot)nony(dot)mous(at)example(dot)invalid> wrote:
>
>> richard wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
>>> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post
>>> of mine.
>>
>> That's impossible, unless you are both behind the same router.
>
> Not with AOL it wasn't.
>
>
Indeed. dhcp musical chairs.
Its vanishingly unlikely that a person who gets your ip address just
vacated will be posting to the same newsgroup, but if you are both in
the same geographical area its entirely possible
But a much more likely thing is that the ISP is using an 'invisible'
proxy. That is all request for port 80 traffic irrespective of actual
final destination are vectored to their proxy.
When all your customers tend to watch the same porn, this saves a lot of
upstream bandwidth, and its a great way to create 'walled gardens' where
only YOUR porn is allowed.
if the ISP was AOL I would say its a virtual certainty, but its unusual
to proxy nntp traffic. But it might as the poster above say, be NATTED.
Certainly pretty much all of some mobile operators IP addresses are
NATTED in some way.
Its nasty because you cant then accept incoming request bit there you go.
Probably the smart phones don't have any server capability anway.
>
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180914 is a reply to message #180910] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 02:34 |
Evan Platt
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:47:49 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>> Yes, that is correct, however this would be people in the same
>> location - a hotel, or a house. Me and California and you in Texas
>> wouldn't have the same IP, however if I were in a hotel, I may have
>> the same IP as another person in the hotel.
>>
>
> Incorrect. For instance, my wife's ex-company routed all internet from
> all of their sites (in several states around the U.S.) are all routed
> through the same proxy. This is quite common in larger companies; it
> simplifies maintenance.
I was speaking about in general residential use. Yes, large companies
may proxy behind a single IP, but in the general sense for residential
customers, not likely.
>
>>> The IP only identifies the server, it does not identify each and every
>>> individual user.
>>
>> No, the IP does not identify the SERVER, bullis.It identifies the
>> USER.
>>
>
> In this case Richard is correct. Externally, all users behind the same
> proxy or router will have the same IP address to the external world. No
> one outside the LAN would have any idea what the real IP address is.
In WHAT case?
If my IP were visible in my headers, it would be MY IP, not some
"server". richard does not understand what a 'server' is.
>
>>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
>>> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post of
>>> mine. So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>>
>> Bullshit. The odds of that are probably a billion to 1.
>>
>
> Actually, quite possible. It does happen.
Really? So, you mean to tell me that if ALL IP's were visible in
headers, and I posted to usenet, there's a HIGH chance that someone
coming here a few minutes later posting to this same group would have
the IP I just had? Bullshit. You're as dumb as bullis.
>> Some? Try everyone. If you had any credibility here bullis, you just
>> lost it.
>>
>
> Nope. Only those who do not understand how ip addresses work.
>
> And even if it were a billion to 1 - with 4 billion ip addresses out
> there, chances are very high it WILL happen.
Riiight.
>
>>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
>>
>> I've explained all of this to you a dozen times. You're either a
>> troll, or you're just too dumb to understand.
>>
>> Let's go to fantasy land here for a minute, and pretend you have a
>> wife and kid. I call your house. How can I call one number, and speak
>> with either you, your wife, or your kid? Easily. The same way a
>> webhost can have multiple domains. They're all on the same physical
>> machine. a HTTP request contains the website the requestor is asking
>> for.
>>
>> Perhaps it's best you stay out of a group discussing something as
>> advanced as PHP, and go to a group discussing... oh, I don't know,
>> shiny things?
>>
>
> Perhaps you should learn how ip assignment works before correcting
> someone who obviously knows more about it than you do.
I understand how IP assignment works. And if you believe bullis
understands anything, you're a bigger troll than he is.
Not to shoot down your hero, but let me give you a good laugh.
From: richard <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
Subject: question for evan platt the answer man
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:53:01 -0700
Message-ID: <0aaa65hbuit2ab5eot9spkt9k03qrq0qht(at)4ax(dot)com>
"As you may know, I have been touring the country side for the past
two
years. I stay at various motels and get online using their wifi
system.
Assume for the moment that the motel has 100 rooms. 100 guests all
have computers and all are connected to the system.
Assuming again, that all are connected to the same news service that
posts an IP in the headers. All 100 post to the same thread in the
same time frame of say 10 minutes. With none having lost a connection
so their IP would not change for that reason.
Now tell us, we the world, sir, exactly how many users will have a
different IP?
Now do recall smartboy, that the ISP knows only that the motel is
connected. Which is connected via hard wired cable. The ISP gives the
motel a constant static IP. ONE IP.
Let us assume again, that 100 people in the same motel are surfing the
net. Each machine is surfing a different website. Now how is that
possible with only 1 IP?
I'm sure that you are also well aware that an ISP is usually assigned
a block of IP's Now I know you know what an octet is so with the
combination of the last two octets, that gives a possible 65,000 IPs.
Yet, the ISP has 500,000 customers. 200,000 are online right now.
You say, one machine, one IP. Please explain then how the ISP can
handle this situation."
Read the whole thread. It's hysterical.
--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180915 is a reply to message #180912] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 03:10 |
Beauregard T. Shagnas
Messages: 154
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> richard the sto0pid wrote:
>>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the
>>> exact same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of
>>> a post of mine.
>>
>> That's impossible, unless you are both behind the same router.
>>
>>> So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>>
>> Well, sure. Why not? It was the most logical reason.
>>
>>> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
>>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one
>>> IP?
>>
>> And that has absolutely nothing to do with Usenet posting. Can't you
>> ever get *anything* right?
>
> he never said it had.. its a valid question, and has peripheral bearing
> on PHP so here goes.
>
> The browser sends not only a page request, ...
Whoa. Stop right there. RtS was not talking about browsers and their
connecting IPs with web servers. He said "person in usenet who had the
exact same IP as mine." Someone who sent a Usenet post.
And since Bullis lives in motels, there is no "corporate proxy" concerns
either. If there actually was such a poster with the same IP, it was
either someone staying at the same motel or was a nymshift by the man
himself (which, if you knew RtS, would be the most likely case).
--
-bts
-Get to know Bullis before you make judgments
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180916 is a reply to message #180914] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 03:27 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 3/25/2013 10:34 PM, Evan Platt wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:47:49 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
> <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>
>>> Yes, that is correct, however this would be people in the same
>>> location - a hotel, or a house. Me and California and you in Texas
>>> wouldn't have the same IP, however if I were in a hotel, I may have
>>> the same IP as another person in the hotel.
>>>
>>
>> Incorrect. For instance, my wife's ex-company routed all internet from
>> all of their sites (in several states around the U.S.) are all routed
>> through the same proxy. This is quite common in larger companies; it
>> simplifies maintenance.
>
> I was speaking about in general residential use. Yes, large companies
> may proxy behind a single IP, but in the general sense for residential
> customers, not likely.
That is not what you said. And it is also not the most common access to
the internet. Business users are - by a long shot.
>>
>>>> The IP only identifies the server, it does not identify each and every
>>>> individual user.
>>>
>>> No, the IP does not identify the SERVER, bullis.It identifies the
>>> USER.
>>>
>>
>> In this case Richard is correct. Externally, all users behind the same
>> proxy or router will have the same IP address to the external world. No
>> one outside the LAN would have any idea what the real IP address is.
>
> In WHAT case?
>
In the case of the IP address identifying the server. It could be a
proxy server, or a router. But unless your computer is connected
directly to a cable modem, it probably WON'T be the user.
> If my IP were visible in my headers, it would be MY IP, not some
> "server". richard does not understand what a 'server' is.
>
Incorrect. It would be the IP of the proxy or router you are using.
For instance, my header would show the IP address Verizon's DHCP
currently assigns to my home, because I am working from home. But I
have 5 computers active on this network - all with different internal IP
addresses. However, externally, they all have the same IP address.
Even if I were to directly connect a computer to my FIOS modem, the
computer would have a different address than what shows up on the
internet, because the Verizon modem is also a router and DHCP server for
the LAN.
>
>>
>>>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
>>>> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post of
>>>> mine. So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>>>
>>> Bullshit. The odds of that are probably a billion to 1.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, quite possible. It does happen.
>
> Really? So, you mean to tell me that if ALL IP's were visible in
> headers, and I posted to usenet, there's a HIGH chance that someone
> coming here a few minutes later posting to this same group would have
> the IP I just had? Bullshit. You're as dumb as bullis.
>
The only IP visible in the header is the one assigned to your site by
your ISP. And it is quite possible someone could get the same address,
and be interested in the same newsgroup.
You obviously don't understand how things work. Even the Power Ball has
odds of around 170 million to one - but that doesn't mean no one wins.
People win on a regular basis.
And I never said it was likely. But it is quite possible. To deny that
possibility shows just how stoopid you are.
Let me give you another example. When I was working for IBM, we had a
problem with one particular program. Every once in a while it would
crash. No rhyme or reason we could determine. We finally found the
problem - there was a sequence of 4 assembler instructions which were
not coded quite correctly. If the OS did a task change while these 4
instructions (out of over 1,000,000 total lines of assembler code), the
state might not be saved properly. And if this were the case, the
program would crash.
Now what are the odds of a task switch in the middle of those 4
instructions (which, BTW, were not a very heavily used part of the
code)? Pretty low - much more than the 1,000,000 to 4 you would think.
But it failed quite often until we found the problem.
>>> Some? Try everyone. If you had any credibility here bullis, you just
>>> lost it.
>>>
>>
>> Nope. Only those who do not understand how ip addresses work.
>>
>> And even if it were a billion to 1 - with 4 billion ip addresses out
>> there, chances are very high it WILL happen.
>
> Riiight.
>
I'm glad you agree.
>>
>>>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
>>>
>>> I've explained all of this to you a dozen times. You're either a
>>> troll, or you're just too dumb to understand.
>>>
>>> Let's go to fantasy land here for a minute, and pretend you have a
>>> wife and kid. I call your house. How can I call one number, and speak
>>> with either you, your wife, or your kid? Easily. The same way a
>>> webhost can have multiple domains. They're all on the same physical
>>> machine. a HTTP request contains the website the requestor is asking
>>> for.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it's best you stay out of a group discussing something as
>>> advanced as PHP, and go to a group discussing... oh, I don't know,
>>> shiny things?
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps you should learn how ip assignment works before correcting
>> someone who obviously knows more about it than you do.
>
> I understand how IP assignment works. And if you believe bullis
> understands anything, you're a bigger troll than he is.
>
> Not to shoot down your hero, but let me give you a good laugh.
>
Richard is not my hero. He and I have gotten into it quite regularly.
However, in this case he is MUCH more correct than you.
It also looks like you're just a troll who gets his kicks by countering
anything Richard says, right or wrong.
You should pay attention. You might learn something. However, I doubt
it. Trolls are too stoopid to learn anything.
> From: richard <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
> Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
> Subject: question for evan platt the answer man
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:53:01 -0700
> Message-ID: <0aaa65hbuit2ab5eot9spkt9k03qrq0qht(at)4ax(dot)com>
>
> "As you may know, I have been touring the country side for the past
> two
> years. I stay at various motels and get online using their wifi
> system.
>
> Assume for the moment that the motel has 100 rooms. 100 guests all
> have computers and all are connected to the system.
>
> Assuming again, that all are connected to the same news service that
> posts an IP in the headers. All 100 post to the same thread in the
> same time frame of say 10 minutes. With none having lost a connection
> so their IP would not change for that reason.
>
> Now tell us, we the world, sir, exactly how many users will have a
> different IP?
>
Depending on the setup, there is a very good chance all will share the
same IP - that of the motel.
> Now do recall smartboy, that the ISP knows only that the motel is
> connected. Which is connected via hard wired cable. The ISP gives the
> motel a constant static IP. ONE IP.
>
Yup. And that is the only one known outside of the motel's LAN.
>
> Let us assume again, that 100 people in the same motel are surfing the
> net. Each machine is surfing a different website. Now how is that
> possible with only 1 IP?
>
It's called Network Address Translation. You should lean what you're
talking about before contradicting someone who knows more than you.
> I'm sure that you are also well aware that an ISP is usually assigned
> a block of IP's Now I know you know what an octet is so with the
> combination of the last two octets, that gives a possible 65,000 IPs.
> Yet, the ISP has 500,000 customers. 200,000 are online right now.
>
Sure, the ISP is assigned a block of IPs. But the ISP may have as
little as 1 IP assigned, or as many as 16 million out of the same block.
Most are in between those two figures, and most of the companies with
Class A IP blocks subdivide those and parcel them out to others. Many
of the Class B owners do the same, and even a few of the Class C do
(even though they only have 256 addresses).
> You say, one machine, one IP. Please explain then how the ISP can
> handle this situation."
>
The ISP would have to have 200K IPs. This could be part of a Class A
block or multiple Class B blocks. But if they have 500,000 customers,
they will definitely have more than one Class B block. However, they
would not need 500,000 IP addresses - that's what DHCP is really about.
Assign the IP address only when it is needed.
> Read the whole thread. It's hysterical.
>
I don't need to. I've seen how stoopid you are.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180917 is a reply to message #180914] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 03:38 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 10:34 PM, Evan Platt wrote:
<nothing worth repeating>
I did a little looking around usenet. It pretty much proves you are a
troll who is stalking Richard. It must gall you to the limit to find
out Richard knows more about something than you do.
I would suggest you take your stalking other places. We're on to you now.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180918 is a reply to message #180917] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 04:13 |
Evan Platt
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 23:38:09 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
> On 3/25/2013 10:34 PM, Evan Platt wrote:
>
> <nothing worth repeating>
But you already did repeat it.
> I did a little looking around usenet. It pretty much proves you are a
> troll who is stalking Richard. It must gall you to the limit to find
> out Richard knows more about something than you do.
>
> I would suggest you take your stalking other places. We're on to you now.
I did some looking around usenet too. Looks like you're real popular
too LOL..
--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180919 is a reply to message #180904] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 05:39 |
Evan Platt
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 00:21:43 +0000 (UTC), "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a(dot)nony(dot)mous(at)example(dot)invalid> wrote:
>> So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>
> Well, sure. Why not? It was the most logical reason.
He's been busted for nymshifting a number of times, although he never
admits it.
>> I know some will insist that what I say is not possible.
>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
>
> And that has absolutely nothing to do with Usenet posting. Can't you ever
> get *anything* right?
That's his one hit wonder. He claims I've never been able to answer
that, yet I've answered that exact question to him a dozen times.
He's either a troll, or has a bad case of Alzheimer.
Or both.
--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180922 is a reply to message #180916] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 09:10 |
Tim Streater
Messages: 328
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <kir4fh$n92$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
> Sure, the ISP is assigned a block of IPs. But the ISP may have as
> little as 1 IP assigned, or as many as 16 million out of the same block.
> Most are in between those two figures, and most of the companies with
> Class A IP blocks subdivide those and parcel them out to others. Many
> of the Class B owners do the same, and even a few of the Class C do
> (even though they only have 256 addresses).
>
>> You say, one machine, one IP. Please explain then how the ISP can
>> handle this situation."
> The ISP would have to have 200K IPs. This could be part of a Class A
> block or multiple Class B blocks. But if they have 500,000 customers,
> they will definitely have more than one Class B block. However, they
> would not need 500,000 IP addresses - that's what DHCP is really about.
> Assign the IP address only when it is needed.
Why are you talking about Class A, B, or C? These are concepts that were
abandoned in the 90s, with the introduction of CIDR. It's true that
prior to that, blocks were allocated in that way, but not any longer.
--
Tim
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180924 is a reply to message #180922] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 10:16 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/26/2013 5:10 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <kir4fh$n92$1(at)dont-email(dot)me>,
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>
>> Sure, the ISP is assigned a block of IPs. But the ISP may have as
>> little as 1 IP assigned, or as many as 16 million out of the same
>> block. Most are in between those two figures, and most of the
>> companies with Class A IP blocks subdivide those and parcel them out
>> to others. Many of the Class B owners do the same, and even a few of
>> the Class C do (even though they only have 256 addresses).
>>
>>> You say, one machine, one IP. Please explain then how the ISP can
>>> handle this situation."
>
>> The ISP would have to have 200K IPs. This could be part of a Class A
>> block or multiple Class B blocks. But if they have 500,000 customers,
>> they will definitely have more than one Class B block. However, they
>> would not need 500,000 IP addresses - that's what DHCP is really
>> about. Assign the IP address only when it is needed.
>
> Why are you talking about Class A, B, or C? These are concepts that were
> abandoned in the 90s, with the introduction of CIDR. It's true that
> prior to that, blocks were allocated in that way, but not any longer.
>
Actually, they are by ARIN. They are then suballocated by the owners.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180925 is a reply to message #180918] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 10:16 |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/26/2013 12:13 AM, Evan Platt wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 23:38:09 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
> <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/25/2013 10:34 PM, Evan Platt wrote:
>>
>> <nothing worth repeating>
>
> But you already did repeat it.
>
>> I did a little looking around usenet. It pretty much proves you are a
>> troll who is stalking Richard. It must gall you to the limit to find
>> out Richard knows more about something than you do.
>>
>> I would suggest you take your stalking other places. We're on to you now.
>
> I did some looking around usenet too. Looks like you're real popular
> too LOL..
>
Yup. Lots of people like me. But then I don't stalk people.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180927 is a reply to message #180922] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 10:42 |
Thomas 'PointedEars'
Messages: 701
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Tim Streater wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>> Sure, the ISP is assigned a block of IPs. But the ISP may have as
>> little as 1 IP assigned, or as many as 16 million out of the same block.
>> […]
>> The ISP would have to have 200K IPs. This could be part of a Class A
>> block or multiple Class B blocks. But if they have 500,000 customers,
>> they will definitely have more than one Class B block. However, they
>> would not need 500,000 IP addresses - that's what DHCP is really about.
>> Assign the IP address only when it is needed.
>
> Why are you talking about Class A, B, or C? These are concepts that were
> abandoned in the 90s, with the introduction of CIDR. It's true that
> prior to that, blocks were allocated in that way, but not any longer.
Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) did _not_ supersede class-based IP
address ranges in 1993. However, that is also one reason why IPv4 addresses
are about to run out [1], why registries are beginning to assign non-class-
based ranges [2], and why ultimately migration to IPv6 is important to the
continued operation of the Internet.
I refer you to <http://www.iana.org/numbers> pp. to clarify your
misconceptions.
PointedEars
___________
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_address_exhaustion>
[2] <http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/ipv4-exhaustion/reaching-the-
last-8>
--
realism: HTML 4.01 Strict
evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
-- Bjoern Hoehrmann
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180928 is a reply to message #180927] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 11:47 |
Tim Streater
Messages: 328
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <1928083(dot)5czRgZtFYk(at)PointedEars(dot)de>,
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars(at)web(dot)de> wrote:
> Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>>> Sure, the ISP is assigned a block of IPs. But the ISP may have as
>>> little as 1 IP assigned, or as many as 16 million out of the same block.
>>> […]
>>> The ISP would have to have 200K IPs. This could be part of a Class A
>>> block or multiple Class B blocks. But if they have 500,000 customers,
>>> they will definitely have more than one Class B block. However, they
>>> would not need 500,000 IP addresses - that's what DHCP is really about.
>>> Assign the IP address only when it is needed.
>>
>> Why are you talking about Class A, B, or C? These are concepts that were
>> abandoned in the 90s, with the introduction of CIDR. It's true that
>> prior to that, blocks were allocated in that way, but not any longer.
>
> Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) did _not_ supersede class-based IP
> address ranges in 1993. However, that is also one reason why IPv4 addresses
> are about to run out [1], why registries are beginning to assign non-class-
> based ranges [2], and why ultimately migration to IPv6 is important to the
> continued operation of the Internet.
What do you mean "beginning to". Don't talk cock. It's been the case
since the 90s that space has *not* been allocated on the old class
basis. When making a request to as it might be RIPE, you might end up
being allocated a /24 (old style class C) or a /16 (old style class B)
but that was just a coincidence. A /21 was a likely request (IIRC, it's
been 6 or 7 years since I was making such requests).
--
Tim
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180929 is a reply to message #180914] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 15:10 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 26/03/13 02:34, Evan Platt wrote:
>> Actually, quite possible. It does happen.
>
> Really? So, you mean to tell me that if ALL IP's were visible in
> headers, and I posted to usenet, there's a HIGH chance that someone
> coming here a few minutes later posting to this same group would have
> the IP I just had? Bullshit. You're as dumb as bullis.
>
No I don't mean that at all.
I said it was *possible*. And it *could* happen.
BUT the more likely thig as I said, is that the ISP is doing invisible
NATTING.
I've got loads of hits on my web site that go to a single address which
seems to be a Blackberry proxying or NATTING node.
>
>
> Let us assume again, that 100 people in the same motel are surfing the
> net. Each machine is surfing a different website. Now how is that
> possible with only 1 IP?
>
easy.
there are also 65536 ports to play with.
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
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