| Re: how to save the visitors ip addresses [message #180916 is a reply to message #180914] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 03:27   |
Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
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Senior Member |
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On 3/25/2013 10:34 PM, Evan Platt wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:47:49 -0400, Jerry Stuckle
> <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>
>>> Yes, that is correct, however this would be people in the same
>>> location - a hotel, or a house. Me and California and you in Texas
>>> wouldn't have the same IP, however if I were in a hotel, I may have
>>> the same IP as another person in the hotel.
>>>
>>
>> Incorrect. For instance, my wife's ex-company routed all internet from
>> all of their sites (in several states around the U.S.) are all routed
>> through the same proxy. This is quite common in larger companies; it
>> simplifies maintenance.
>
> I was speaking about in general residential use. Yes, large companies
> may proxy behind a single IP, but in the general sense for residential
> customers, not likely.
That is not what you said. And it is also not the most common access to
the internet. Business users are - by a long shot.
>>
>>>> The IP only identifies the server, it does not identify each and every
>>>> individual user.
>>>
>>> No, the IP does not identify the SERVER, bullis.It identifies the
>>> USER.
>>>
>>
>> In this case Richard is correct. Externally, all users behind the same
>> proxy or router will have the same IP address to the external world. No
>> one outside the LAN would have any idea what the real IP address is.
>
> In WHAT case?
>
In the case of the IP address identifying the server. It could be a
proxy server, or a router. But unless your computer is connected
directly to a cable modem, it probably WON'T be the user.
> If my IP were visible in my headers, it would be MY IP, not some
> "server". richard does not understand what a 'server' is.
>
Incorrect. It would be the IP of the proxy or router you are using.
For instance, my header would show the IP address Verizon's DHCP
currently assigns to my home, because I am working from home. But I
have 5 computers active on this network - all with different internal IP
addresses. However, externally, they all have the same IP address.
Even if I were to directly connect a computer to my FIOS modem, the
computer would have a different address than what shows up on the
internet, because the Verizon modem is also a router and DHCP server for
the LAN.
>
>>
>>>> Years ago I happened to run across a person in usenet who had the exact
>>>> same IP as mine and he had posted within a couple of minutes of a post of
>>>> mine. So naturally, I get accused of nymshifting.
>>>
>>> Bullshit. The odds of that are probably a billion to 1.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, quite possible. It does happen.
>
> Really? So, you mean to tell me that if ALL IP's were visible in
> headers, and I posted to usenet, there's a HIGH chance that someone
> coming here a few minutes later posting to this same group would have
> the IP I just had? Bullshit. You're as dumb as bullis.
>
The only IP visible in the header is the one assigned to your site by
your ISP. And it is quite possible someone could get the same address,
and be interested in the same newsgroup.
You obviously don't understand how things work. Even the Power Ball has
odds of around 170 million to one - but that doesn't mean no one wins.
People win on a regular basis.
And I never said it was likely. But it is quite possible. To deny that
possibility shows just how stoopid you are.
Let me give you another example. When I was working for IBM, we had a
problem with one particular program. Every once in a while it would
crash. No rhyme or reason we could determine. We finally found the
problem - there was a sequence of 4 assembler instructions which were
not coded quite correctly. If the OS did a task change while these 4
instructions (out of over 1,000,000 total lines of assembler code), the
state might not be saved properly. And if this were the case, the
program would crash.
Now what are the odds of a task switch in the middle of those 4
instructions (which, BTW, were not a very heavily used part of the
code)? Pretty low - much more than the 1,000,000 to 4 you would think.
But it failed quite often until we found the problem.
>>> Some? Try everyone. If you had any credibility here bullis, you just
>>> lost it.
>>>
>>
>> Nope. Only those who do not understand how ip addresses work.
>>
>> And even if it were a billion to 1 - with 4 billion ip addresses out
>> there, chances are very high it WILL happen.
>
> Riiight.
>
I'm glad you agree.
>>
>>>> Then how is it that a webhost can have a multitude of domains on one IP?
>>>
>>> I've explained all of this to you a dozen times. You're either a
>>> troll, or you're just too dumb to understand.
>>>
>>> Let's go to fantasy land here for a minute, and pretend you have a
>>> wife and kid. I call your house. How can I call one number, and speak
>>> with either you, your wife, or your kid? Easily. The same way a
>>> webhost can have multiple domains. They're all on the same physical
>>> machine. a HTTP request contains the website the requestor is asking
>>> for.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it's best you stay out of a group discussing something as
>>> advanced as PHP, and go to a group discussing... oh, I don't know,
>>> shiny things?
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps you should learn how ip assignment works before correcting
>> someone who obviously knows more about it than you do.
>
> I understand how IP assignment works. And if you believe bullis
> understands anything, you're a bigger troll than he is.
>
> Not to shoot down your hero, but let me give you a good laugh.
>
Richard is not my hero. He and I have gotten into it quite regularly.
However, in this case he is MUCH more correct than you.
It also looks like you're just a troll who gets his kicks by countering
anything Richard says, right or wrong.
You should pay attention. You might learn something. However, I doubt
it. Trolls are too stoopid to learn anything.
> From: richard <member(at)newsguy(dot)com>
> Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
> Subject: question for evan platt the answer man
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:53:01 -0700
> Message-ID: <0aaa65hbuit2ab5eot9spkt9k03qrq0qht(at)4ax(dot)com>
>
> "As you may know, I have been touring the country side for the past
> two
> years. I stay at various motels and get online using their wifi
> system.
>
> Assume for the moment that the motel has 100 rooms. 100 guests all
> have computers and all are connected to the system.
>
> Assuming again, that all are connected to the same news service that
> posts an IP in the headers. All 100 post to the same thread in the
> same time frame of say 10 minutes. With none having lost a connection
> so their IP would not change for that reason.
>
> Now tell us, we the world, sir, exactly how many users will have a
> different IP?
>
Depending on the setup, there is a very good chance all will share the
same IP - that of the motel.
> Now do recall smartboy, that the ISP knows only that the motel is
> connected. Which is connected via hard wired cable. The ISP gives the
> motel a constant static IP. ONE IP.
>
Yup. And that is the only one known outside of the motel's LAN.
>
> Let us assume again, that 100 people in the same motel are surfing the
> net. Each machine is surfing a different website. Now how is that
> possible with only 1 IP?
>
It's called Network Address Translation. You should lean what you're
talking about before contradicting someone who knows more than you.
> I'm sure that you are also well aware that an ISP is usually assigned
> a block of IP's Now I know you know what an octet is so with the
> combination of the last two octets, that gives a possible 65,000 IPs.
> Yet, the ISP has 500,000 customers. 200,000 are online right now.
>
Sure, the ISP is assigned a block of IPs. But the ISP may have as
little as 1 IP assigned, or as many as 16 million out of the same block.
Most are in between those two figures, and most of the companies with
Class A IP blocks subdivide those and parcel them out to others. Many
of the Class B owners do the same, and even a few of the Class C do
(even though they only have 256 addresses).
> You say, one machine, one IP. Please explain then how the ISP can
> handle this situation."
>
The ISP would have to have 200K IPs. This could be part of a Class A
block or multiple Class B blocks. But if they have 500,000 customers,
they will definitely have more than one Class B block. However, they
would not need 500,000 IP addresses - that's what DHCP is really about.
Assign the IP address only when it is needed.
> Read the whole thread. It's hysterical.
>
I don't need to. I've seen how stoopid you are.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
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