| PM Question [message #30817] |
Wed, 15 March 2006 21:27  |
DataLore
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2006
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Is it possible for an administrator to view private messages sent from one user to another?
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| Re: PM Question [message #30828 is a reply to message #30817] |
Thu, 16 March 2006 16:17  |
Ilia
Messages: 13241
Registered: January 2002
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| DataLore wrote on Wed, 15 March 2006 16:27 |
Is it possible for an administrator to view private messages sent from one user to another?
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Yes and No. The admin can login to the user's account and see their message, but there is no control panel to view those messages otherwise.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: PM Question [message #30841 is a reply to message #30836] |
Fri, 17 March 2006 14:35 |
Ilia
Messages: 13241
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The message body is inside the private file yes, but if the user removes the message and then the admin runs the message compactor it will be removed forever.
To access the user's messages, you need to retrieve or change their password and then login to their account.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: PM Question [message #30847 is a reply to message #30833] |
Fri, 17 March 2006 20:06 |
kenjb
Messages: 67
Registered: September 2004
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Is the answer going to be published for all to see, or is it a PM type of message only between the original poster and the admin?
Wow, did I just make some sort of point. What's the point of having PM enabled on your forum if you are going to look at what others are PMing to each other? Doesn't that go against the word "Private" in the phrase "Private Messaging"?
I don't know why I'm having a problem with this.
kenjb
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| Re: PM Question [message #30849 is a reply to message #30848] |
Fri, 17 March 2006 20:49 |
JusLurking
Messages: 6
Registered: March 2006
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On a forum that I am a member of there has been a topic about Admin's abilities to read PM's.
The Admin. of this specific forum seems to know a lot about what is discussed behind the "scenes" and whom is doing the discussing. A forum member specifically made a thread in regards to Admin's being able to access the PM's of forum members, the Admin. blatantly stated NO the PM's could not be accessed by her, then back pedaled and said she could access but only if she changed the members password thus causing the member the inability to sign in.
So now that it has been explained to clarity, Can Admin's access PM's without a member knowing that Admin. has gained access?
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| Re: PM Question [message #30852 is a reply to message #30817] |
Fri, 17 March 2006 22:28 |
kenjb
Messages: 67
Registered: September 2004
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Then I think you should disable private messaging. That way, no one on your forum can say something in private and you no longer have to take the time to snoop at his or her private messages behind their backs.
Just something to consider. Otherwise change the text labeled as “Private Messaging” to something like “Almost Private Messaging” so people know that it’s no longer completely private.
kenjb
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| Re: PM Question [message #30854 is a reply to message #30853] |
Sat, 18 March 2006 03:51 |
JusLurking
Messages: 6
Registered: March 2006
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| DataLore wrote on Fri, 17 March 2006 18:22 |
| kenjb wrote on Fri, 17 March 2006 17:28 |
Then I think you should disable private messaging. That way, no one on your forum can say something in private and you no longer have to take the time to snoop at his or her private messages behind their backs.
Just something to consider. Otherwise change the text labeled as “Private Messaging” to something like “Almost Private Messaging” so people know that it’s no longer completely private.
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I can think of no legitimate reason why anyone should be going through someone else's personal mail. Admin or otherwise.
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I totally agree. The Admin. of the site that I belong to thrives on drama, thus, if it's possible (which now I'm sure it is) she enjoys, actually lives on reading PM's of members, thus my reason for trying to find out if it is actually possible for this to occur!!! Nothing more nothing less. I am not an Admin. trying to find a way to snoop but a member wondering if the Admin can snoop! example: A couple of forum members have met and this Admin. knew about it and posted it to the forum. If the case is that PM's can be read, I not only do not want to be a member of this specific forum I am referring to, but will be aware of futrue issues where PM's are concerned with other forums. Does this clear up the simple question in which deserves a simple answer?
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| Re: PM Question [message #30885 is a reply to message #30884] |
Sun, 19 March 2006 03:04 |
JusLurking
Messages: 6
Registered: March 2006
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| kenjb wrote on Sat, 18 March 2006 21:08 |
| JusLurking wrote on Sat, 18 March 2006 15:58 |
I'm guessing we will never get a complete full answer to such a simple question! 
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The answer is here, it’s been spelled out above.
An admin has to pretty much take over the persons account by changing the password of the account to see what is in private messaging for that account. Otherwise, a single file on the server stores all of the private messages and can be viewed by an admin, but the messages are just kind of lumped altogether from everyone making it hard to tell who said what in what private message to whom. That make sense?
Further, if an admin takes over an account to view private messages by changing the password, then the person who is using that account will know because the password will have been changed.
Maybe someone could suggest (to Ilia) storing the private message file with a hash, making it more difficult for the regular forum admin to read casually (in the proper forum area).
Is that a complete answer to the question? 
Just trying to be helpful.
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Yes, it does make sense and thank you for clarifying HOW it can be done!!!
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| Re: PM Question [message #30890 is a reply to message #30885] |
Sun, 19 March 2006 17:37 |
Ilia
Messages: 13241
Registered: January 2002
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Look an admin is an admin for a reason. Ultimately admin can access and change any aspect of the forum. That means reading other people's private messages if they are so inclined.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: PM Question [message #30895 is a reply to message #30890] |
Sun, 19 March 2006 18:02 |
kenjb
Messages: 67
Registered: September 2004
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Look here Ilia, with your software being so easy to install and operate, you are enabling people that very well have no right to be an "admin" and might very well be abusing the position. Is it to much to ask to hash the private message file to keep out the would be malicious "admin"?
All part of the fun! I always choose the underdog.
I personally have nothing to gain or lose if you decide either way. It was just a good point raised that the word "Private" could be abused if the admin so chooses, and then it's no longer private. Maybe you should change the text to read PM=Personal Message so people don't get the wrong idea.
kenjb
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| Re: PM Question [message #30913 is a reply to message #30895] |
Mon, 20 March 2006 16:33 |
Ilia
Messages: 13241
Registered: January 2002
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No matter how you store the data admin will always have access to it. Heck they can upload a PHP script via the file manager and read your hashtable or what not. Bottom line if you don't trust your forum admins, don't make them admins keep them as moderators.
FUDforum Core Developer
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| Re: PM Question [message #30945 is a reply to message #30913] |
Tue, 21 March 2006 16:21 |
kenjb
Messages: 67
Registered: September 2004
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I think you give to much credit to some admin people. I'd be willing to bet that at least 65% of your admin type users would have no idea how to go about viewing a hashed file, or even care to go out of their way if that was the case. I mean a percentage of FUD admins that might otherwise look at the PM file would be less likley to view it if it were hashed (just would be too much trouble to do).
I think if the hash table for PM's only doesn't cause any server load to speak of and doesn't slow down the performance of FUD Forum, then it would be an added bonus in claiming that "PM's are hashed for privacy" in FUD Forum.
I don't think it's a bad idea to add a little more privacy to FUD in a world where privacy is seemingly less and less all the time.
Any Chance that you might consider making that change to the PM file Ilia? Don't you already hash the log file?
Lets face it, if you really intend for admin types to view other PM's, wouldn't you have added an admin interface just for that purpose.
kenjb
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| Re: PM Question [message #30960 is a reply to message #30945] |
Wed, 22 March 2006 16:46 |
Ilia
Messages: 13241
Registered: January 2002
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Accessing the user's PM box is not as simple as it may seem you need to change the user's password and then login to their account to do this. Changing the storage mechanism which for all intents and purpopses is an offset hash will do nothing to resolve this.
FUDforum Core Developer
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