Karma [message #3711] |
Thu, 04 July 2002 17:56  |
coppper
 Messages: 4 Registered: July 2002
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Junior Member |
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hi,
there is a user ranking system but it's very primitve from my point of view (and i know this is open-source and i can make any change i like)
i downloaded karma hack for vbulletin and in its readme it says following:
Karma Features
1. Admin
- Set points for each
~ newthread
~ reply
~ points for thread owner if thread's view exceeded certain number.
~ extra points to user from admin/mod
~ extra points for thread owner if the thread's reply more than certain number.
~ search members by karma points.
~ create redeem items for members to redeem when they reach have enough karma points.
- Admin/Moderator can also add/delete points to user who posts useful thread or nonsense.
- Admin can set auto ban feature to on or off. If this feature is set to on, users' karma points that
exceed the negative point admin set to, will be banned from posting or replying threads.
2. User
- User can comment on other people's post and if they agree that post, the user will get karma points
for that. If user disagree with what they post, their karma points will be deducted.
- User can earn karma points when they post new thread, replies, many people view their thread, many
people reply their thread.
- User can also earn karma points from administrator or moderator if they post useful thread.
- Their points wil be deducted if they post nonsense.
- User can view the highest karma points members to lowest points.
- User can redeem items when they have enough karma points.
These can be added to fudforum to make more feature-complete.
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Re: Karma [message #3762 is a reply to message #3712] |
Fri, 05 July 2002 12:11   |
coppper
 Messages: 4 Registered: July 2002
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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prottoss wrote on Thu, 04 July 2002 21:03 |
The hack you've described seems to be a little more complete, since it tries to do something with the karma. Although, I am not sure how useful that would be in a forum enviroment, whilst in a weblog enviroment it is generally used to 'highlight' certain items.
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imho, karma is a necessity for every forum package. because it encourages members to participate. for example, you can give a gift above a certain point. so people in your "community" probably try to gain points which means more posts. technology itself is not sufficient to create a community which is the main target for a forum software. there are lots of forum software available free or not, but they almost all think only the technology, not the community. people visit a forum (or a site) if they have a good reason to do that. one of the reasons is to be gifted for participation. more participation means earning more. all of us know "build it they will come" is not correct anymore, because people have _tons of_ different choices for free forums. please look at, if still available, compaq support community for a true community.
another point is that ubbthreads have good hack for front page. it consists of top threads, top poster, most popular threads etc not directly the forums available. but it lacks such a karma hack. ubb threads only have rating users/articles not a exact karma system.
fudforum seems to be most professional forum script around. but it lacks some community related items, such as karma hack, or zapping of forums (maybe a kind of this is available in fudforum, i'm not sure). remember the "age" concept in the old BBS days. haven't you ever put tintin to increase your age 
these all are proofs to implement a karma hack or any other community related features. karma is the first one and here anyone can send his "community" related items.
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Re: Karma [message #3764 is a reply to message #3762] |
Fri, 05 July 2002 12:20   |
Ilia
 Messages: 13241 Registered: January 2002
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Senior Member Administrator Core Developer |
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I agree that 'Karma' generally is a community building tool, since it encourages participation, although some people tend to start Karma-whoring in attempt to elevate their status. For example, if a forum gives karma points to popular threads, that would encourage people to start flamewars in order to raise their karma level.
I am not against a Karma system, however before I consider implementing I would like to know of a good way to implement it, so that it is useful tool for forum users and not just arbitrarily assigned 'points' that you can gain through frequent usage.
There is also the consideration of speed, properly implemented Karma system would have numerous rules, which would cause some performance degradation, therefor it should be something each forum administrator can choose to enable or disable on their forum, since not everyone may want/need this feature.
FUDforum Core Developer
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Re: Karma [message #3785 is a reply to message #3776] |
Fri, 05 July 2002 20:31   |
Ilia
 Messages: 13241 Registered: January 2002
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Senior Member Administrator Core Developer |
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coppper wrote on Fri, 05 July 2002 13:43 |
- Admin/Moderator can also add/delete points to user who posts useful thread or nonsense.
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Sounds fine, but in reality presents many problems. It is very hard for moderators to track actions of users outside of their own forums, since they are not moderators there and there are only 1-3 admins per forum in most cases. On a large forum just keeping track of messages in hard, but now you suggest keeping track of user actions as well?
That sounds somewhat impractical, especially when you consider a large forum.
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- Admin can set auto ban feature to on or off. If this feature is set to on, users' karma points that
exceed the negative point admin set to, will be banned from posting or replying threads.
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That could work, BUT what if 3 users decide they don't like 4th user and continually assign negative karma points to that user. Those 3, who are just regular users eventually would be able to get the 4th person banned as the result of their actions.
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so you have complete control. even a person write a script that posts a topic every 1 hour. there are moderators in the forums to moderate. they delete non-sense or flame-war topics.
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Automatic deletion is VERY BAD idea, since once something is removed it is gone, heck the admin won't even know it was removed unless he had seen the thread prior to removal.
Although, this concept can be slightly modified to make a 'low karma trigger' that would report low karma threads to moderators & admins automatically.
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for the performance point of view thread/reply/thread view calculations may be done hourly or (selectable) X-hour periods even via a cron job or a php file. another way is with a enable/disable switch, users concerning about performance switch off karma.
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Cron is not an option, since windows users do not have cron and many vhost accounts to do offer access to cron. So, it would need to be done realtime inside an IF.
When I think of a karma system I always think of Slashdot, I've actually read up a rather large chapter on how Karma is used inside slashcode. It is a very complex system, which despite its complexity and much testing still has its fair share of issues.
On Slashdot the karma system allows certain users to assign certain amount of karma points at certain times. Based on the given karma points users can establish filters that would result in messages with a karma level lower then specified from not being displayed.
This process of filtering messages is rather slow, because there can be a huge number of combinations possible. This is why slashcode generates static pages with default settings for all non registered users and only does dynamic pages for registered users. They can do that since the majority of the browsing audience in weblogs are generally anonymous readers, while on 90% of forums majority of the audience are registered users.
FUDforum Core Developer
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Re: Karma [message #3854 is a reply to message #3847] |
Sun, 07 July 2002 23:02   |
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james
 Messages: 65 Registered: June 2002
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Member |
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By professional I meant full-featured; I agree completely that it would be more of an incentive system, rather than a useful one for businesses.
I am really novice at PHP, but I would suspect that if by enabling Karma you generated the database entry (or file, however it works), and by disabling Karma you totally removed all references to the database (or file), you could keep the speed hit to those disabling it to a minimum. It would mean that to disable Karma would totally destroy all data, but I believe that people wouldn't switch back and forth often anyways.
If you are referring to the PHP code, is it possible to put virtually all references to karma into its own file, and only call on that file if Karma is enabled? You would probably only need 3-6 extra lines of code in each file, increasing the size by a few kilobytes, but not decreasing the speed very much for users who disable it.
Please note that these are suggestions from a PHP beginner, and may be completely flawed in their logic.
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Re: Karma [message #4161 is a reply to message #3711] |
Wed, 17 July 2002 09:55   |
Anonymous
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hi again,
prottoss:
karma system that i suggest and you do are different. you are talking about moderation like feature. but my goal is to increase participation by giving incentives from a certain karma point. what i understand from your last post (to me) we're not discussing the same thing.
as you said /. karma system somewhat complex implementation of that may be hard. but of course it may be done.
i found an interesting software crond replacement (maybe not has all the features crond has): http://www.gemini1consulting.com/tekhelp/online_manuals/phpcron/html/
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Re: Karma [message #4163 is a reply to message #4161] |
Wed, 17 July 2002 11:19  |
Ilia
 Messages: 13241 Registered: January 2002
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Senior Member Administrator Core Developer |
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PHPcron is a nifty tool however it requires the client to have a php CGI binary available on the system. Many do not have one, so reliance on it would introduce unnecessary dependencies.
FUDforum Core Developer
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