| Re: Embedding HTML Within a PHP Statement [message #175996 is a reply to message #175987] |
Mon, 14 November 2011 14:01   |
Erwin Moller
Messages: 228
Registered: September 2010
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Senior Member |
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On 11/14/2011 1:30 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <4ec0f420$0$6915$e4fe514c(at)news2(dot)news(dot)xs4all(dot)nl>,
> Erwin Moller
> <Since_humans_read_this_I_am_spammed_too_much(at)spamyourself(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think that approach is very recommendable.
>> At least not as a general recipe.
Hello Tim,
>
> It won't cover many situations, I agree.
>
>> A few drawbacks:
>> - Your full ajax approach results in multiple requests to the server
>> (where one request would suffice without AJAX.).
>
> I would rather eat three correctly-sized meals a day than one very big
> meal once a week.
Me too.
But your analogy doesn't explain why you think it is better.
Are you stating that all-in-once versus multiple AJAX-calls is somehow
better/easier for the server?
Maybe lower memory-load of multiple small requests outperforms the
higher memory load of one (bigger) request?
But that is just guessing. I am curious what your rationale behind that
statement is.
Please don't respond with more food. :P
>
>> - It also demands the client to have Javascript enabled.
>
> Yes, and so what. My application has 7500 lines of PHP and 12000 or so
> lines of javaScript. I see no prospect of being able to replace the
> JavaScript by some clever CSS.
I don't know your application of course.
The reason I replied to your post is simply because in typical*
situations it isn't necessarily a good approach.
*By typical I mean: client/server, where:
client=browser on some device,
server=webserver serving HTML using PHP as language.
>
>> - Many searchengines and their associated crawlers don't execute
>> Javascript, so they will be blind for that fetched content.
>
> While some might, and with good reason, personally I don't take the
> needs of search engines into account.
OK. Fair enough. :-)
>
>> - In many cases the back button will give unexpected results, and
>> bookmarking a page becomes a guessing game.
>
> Mmm. In everything you say here, you make the mistake of assuming that
> PHP, browser, JavaScript are components that can *only* be used in a
> traditional browser-on-my-computer, server-somewhere-remote scenario.
> This is an error.
>
Yes, I responded to the OP with that typical set-up in mind, since the
OP didn't indicate anything else I saw little reason to do so.
[short intermezzo at a driving school]
Student: "So if I want to break I press the right pedal?"
Driving instructor: "Correct."
....Student crashes into a wall trying to use right pedal to break...
Student: "Why the $#$# did you tell me to use that right pedal?"
Driving instructor: "Because that is where the breaks are in my 1891
Daimler. It is a beautiful car by the way."
[/short intermezzo]
PS: I have no clue where the breaks actually are in a 1891 Daimler. ;-)
>> I also fail to see why you claim "much cleaner for the user POV".
>
> Because reloading a page is messy and slow from the user's PoV. Instead
> you can use AJAX to respond in a much more timely way depending what
> they are doing. Or validate their form as they are entering it, or do
> something like a postcode or address lookup.
Yes, all the above are perfectly good examples where AJAX makes sense
from a user POV. (I assume you validate the data again serverside.)
I won't argue about that, and I use it myself in similar situations.
But why build the better part of your document like that?
Why fetch the main content via Ajax?
I have seen this before, I understand how to do it, but I don't
understand the why.
The only valid reason I can think of is the flashing/buildup of the new
document, but I never felt that out-weighted all the drawbacks (poor
navigation/bookmarking are the worst).
> And yes, in most instances
> you can offer a degraded approach in the case where the user *has*
> turned off JS, but then they get a poorer service and may not understand
> why.
And what about bookmarking?
And intuitive use of the back button?
Those things often feel broken to me when using AJAX-riddled websites.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
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