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Re: Unicode support [message #180994 is a reply to message #180993]

Sun, 31 March 2013 17:12

M. Strobel
Messages: 386
Registered: December 2011

Karma:

Senior Member

Am 31.03.2013 14:41, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 31/03/13 13:10, M. Strobel wrote:
>> Am 30.03.2013 19:04, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>> On 30/03/13 14:55, Christoph Becker wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 30/03/13 13:25, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The same issue exists with characters outside the BMP in ECMAScript
>>>> >> implementations which uses 16-bit characters (usually one UTF-16 code
>>>> >> unit
>>>> >> per character). But you can work around that rather efficiently.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > The problem become 'what do you mean by strlen()' - the space the
>>>> > characters will occupy in an constant width font, or the storage
>>>> > allocated to the string?
>>>> >
>>>> > Mostly we are concerned with the latter.
>>>>
>>>> I am more concerned about the number of characters the string holds.
>>>> Say, I want to get the last character:
>>>>
>>>> $str = '€';
>>>> echo $str[2];
>>>>
>>>> > Because lack of precision in font reproduction, or even in guaranteeing
>>>> > which font may be selected, renders the former an 'open' question.
>>>> >
>>>> > strlen('€')===3 is in fact the correct answer.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose most *higher level languages* define the length of a string as
>>>> the number of characters the string holds. Cf. ECMAScript's length
>>>> property and TCL's [string length]. Even PHP's mb_strlen() returns the
>>>> number of characters.
>>>>
>>>
>>> so what happens in a typographic ligature like 'ᴁ'?
>>>
>>> I think you are making a rod for your back here.
>>>
>>> The storage requirements are exact specific and useful.
>>>
>>> The concept of a 'character in a text string' is really not..and if you go deep into
>>> typography with kerning, leading,ligature and the like and the like you will
>>> understand why.
>>>
>>
>> Of course you need both, the storage requirements, and direct access to characters.
>> Maybe programming languages should use internally full 32 bit per char, or compress
>> the unicode string using a good library for access.
>>
>> C does not even know strings, just byte arrays
>>
> Thereby avoiding the problems completely by not even pretending to solve them.
>
> And you can always wrote a unicode_strlen() to any specification you want..the
> problem is..
>
> ...given that many 'characters' may take LESS than a byte (ligature) or up to 3-4
> bytes (unicode character sets).... what specification?
>

So what? How much space does a backspace take? And how much a DEL (127)? This has not
been a problem so far.

And a ligature can be decomposed. Of course every case has to be discussed, but this
is done AFAIK.

/Str.

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[Message index]

		mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: oldyork90 on Wed, 20 March 2013 03:49
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: Jerry Stuckle on Wed, 20 March 2013 10:42
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: oldyork90 on Wed, 20 March 2013 14:09
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Wed, 20 March 2013 14:29
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: The Cat in the Hat on Wed, 20 March 2013 21:58
		UTF-8 charset (was: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated) By: Christoph Becker on Wed, 20 March 2013 22:45
		Re: UTF-8 charset (was: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated) By: The Cat in the Hat on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:13
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:31
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Thu, 21 March 2013 09:11
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: adrian on Thu, 21 March 2013 14:31
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Thu, 21 March 2013 16:22
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Thu, 21 March 2013 17:05
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Fri, 22 March 2013 00:17
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: Christoph Becker on Fri, 22 March 2013 00:55
		Unicode support (was: UTF-8 charset) By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Fri, 22 March 2013 01:16
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 12:57
		Re: Unicode support By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Sat, 30 March 2013 13:25
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 14:33
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 14:55
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 18:04
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 20:26
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 21:26
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 22:14
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 22:29
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Sun, 31 March 2013 12:10
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sun, 31 March 2013 12:41
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Sun, 31 March 2013 17:12
		Re: Unicode support By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Sat, 30 March 2013 19:18
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 20:05
		Re: Unicode support By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Sat, 30 March 2013 20:19
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Sun, 31 March 2013 12:06
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Tue, 02 April 2013 17:59
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 14:29
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Fri, 22 March 2013 10:50
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Fri, 22 March 2013 08:46
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Thu, 21 March 2013 17:36
		Re: UTF-8 charset [OT] By: adrian on Thu, 21 March 2013 18:22
		Re: UTF-8 charset [OT] By: Peter H. Coffin on Thu, 21 March 2013 20:00
		Re: UTF-8 charset [OT] By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Fri, 22 March 2013 00:47
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:20
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: Scott Johnson on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:39
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: Jerry Stuckle on Thu, 21 March 2013 03:29
		OT: Xnews mime-proxy (was: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated) By: BootNic on Thu, 21 March 2013 14:53
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: oldyork90 on Thu, 21 March 2013 13:43

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