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Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22674]

Thu, 10 February 2005 19:39

naudefj

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Hi,

Some button images have title tags while other don't have any. For example:

Tree View: <img title="Switch to threaded view of this topic"...

The following buttons don't have it (can you please add them?):
- New Topic
- Post Reply
- Etc.

Best regards.

Frank

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22678 is a reply to message #22674]

Thu, 10 February 2005 21:37

Ilia

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Those buttons seemed self evident to me... If you like make a list of ALL these buttons and we'd have a chat on which need title tag and so on...

I'd really like to avoid putting more text that we absolutely have to the screen.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22696 is a reply to message #22678]

Fri, 11 February 2005 05:53

naudefj

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Registered: December 2004

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Hi Ilia,

I agree, we don't want it bloated. However, all images should have "width=" and "height=" tags for fast rendering. Also, "alt=" tags should be made shorter (textual replacement for the image), while "title=" can be used to describe the button in more detail.

Here are the images from the message index page:

Current image tags:

<img alt="Create a new topic" src="theme/default/images/new_thread.gif" />
<img alt="Go to next message" title="Go to next message" src="theme/default/images/down.png" width=16 height=11 />
<img alt="Go to previous message" title="Go to previous message" src="theme/default/images/up.png" width=16 height=11 />
<img alt="Send a private message to this user" title="Send a private message to this user" src="theme/default/images/msg_pm.gif" />
<img alt="" src="theme/default/images/msg_about.gif" />
<img alt="" src="theme/default/images/msg_quote.gif" />
<img alt="" src="theme/default/images/msg_reply.gif" />
<img src="theme/default/images/offline.png" alt="???  is currently offline" title="Ilia  is currently offline" />
<img src="theme/default/images/post_reply.gif" alt="Submit Reply" />
<img src="theme/default/images/top_help.png" alt="FAQ" />
<img src="theme/default/images/top_home.png" alt="Home" />
<img src="theme/default/images/top_logout.png" alt="Logout" />
<img src="theme/default/images/top_members.png" alt="Members" />
<img src="theme/default/images/top_pm.png" alt="Private Messaging" />
<img src="theme/default/images/top_profile.png" title="Click here to access user control panel" alt="User CP" />
<img src="theme/default/images/top_search.png" alt="Search" />
<img title="23361082" src="theme/default/images/icq.png" alt="" />
<img title="Switch to threaded view of this topic" alt="Switch to threaded view of this topic" src="theme/default/images/tree_view.gif" />

Suggested image tags for discussion:

<img alt="New Topic" title="Start a new thread" src="theme/default/images/new_thread.gif" width=100 height=25 />
<img alt="Next Message" title="Go to next message" src="theme/default/images/down.png" width=16 height=11 />
<img alt="Previous Message" title="Go to previous message" src="theme/default/images/up.png" width=16 height=11 />
<img alt="Send PM" title="Send a private message to this user" src="theme/default/images/msg_pm.gif" width=71 height=18 />
<img alt="Profile" title="View user's profile" src="theme/default/images/msg_about.gif" width=71 height=18 />
<img alt="Quote" title="Quote message text" src="theme/default/images/msg_quote.gif" width=71 height=18 />
<img alt="Reply" title="Reply to message" src="theme/default/images/msg_reply.gif" width=71 height=18 />
<img alt="Offline" title="??? is currently offline" src="theme/default/images/offline.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="Reply" title="Submit Reply" src="theme/default/images/post_reply.gif" width=100 height=25 />
<img alt="FAQ" title="Help" src="theme/default/images/top_help.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="Home" title="Go to Forum Home" src="theme/default/images/top_home.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="Logout" title="Logout" src="theme/default/images/top_logout.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="Members" title="Member Profiles" src="theme/default/images/top_members.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="Private Messaging" title="Private Messaging" src="theme/default/images/top_pm.png" width=15 height=11 />
<img alt="User CP" title="Click here to access user control panel" src="theme/default/images/top_profile.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="Search" title="Search messages" src="theme/default/images/top_search.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="ICQ" title="Send ICQ message to user 23361082" src="theme/default/images/icq.png" width=16 height=16 />
<img alt="Tree View" title="Switch to threaded view of this topic" src="theme/default/images/tree_view.gif" width=100 height=25 />

Best regards.

Frank

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22704 is a reply to message #22696]

Fri, 11 February 2005 15:23

Ilia

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Imo putting the text twice is redundant, which is why it was not put in the 1st place.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22706 is a reply to message #22674]

Fri, 11 February 2005 15:35

JamesS

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Location: Atlanta, GA

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It depends on how compliant you want to be with the DOCTYPE that the forum uses. The alt attribute is required for image elements (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#alternate-text). The text in the alt attribute is meant to show for people that don't have image support in their browser or can't use image support (blind people); it allows the page to breakdown gracefully.

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22708 is a reply to message #22706]

Fri, 11 February 2005 15:45

Ilia

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All image buttons have alt text to be complaint with the DOCTYPE. The title="", merely adds mouse over in most browsers that is always dislayed unlike the alt tag.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22710 is a reply to message #22674]

Fri, 11 February 2005 15:52

JamesS

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Location: Atlanta, GA

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I misunderstood the original post. I read it to mean that all images should have alt attributes.

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22732 is a reply to message #22710]

Sun, 13 February 2005 16:33

naudefj

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Hi,

Yes, and all ALT= attributes should have values! Preferably the same text that is written on the button. If not, how would people that do not see these images know what to do?

Also, can we assume that everyone would be OK with the added WIDTH= and HEIGHT= attributes?

Further motivation for the TITLE= attributes:

This attribute not only offers advisory information to the end-user, but also describes the link to search engines (better placement). Usage should be consistent: I've watched a couple of my users using the forum, if they see this on one button, they look for it on other buttons.

BTW: The ALT= and TITLE= attributes are used for different purposes. If they have the same text, it cannot be seen as duplication.

Best regards.

Frank

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22734 is a reply to message #22732]

Sun, 13 February 2005 17:04

Ilia

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Hardcoding image sizes gives negligeble perfomance benefit, but also makes it harder to customize the forum, since can no longer just replace the images. You'd also need to update all templates where they are being used.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22735 is a reply to message #22734]

Sun, 13 February 2005 17:12

naudefj

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OK, no big deal - as usual, I'll just update my own templates.

BTW: If what you said is true, you need to remove the WIDTH= and HEIGHT= from all your image tags.

Best regards.

Frank

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22777 is a reply to message #22735]

Tue, 15 February 2005 18:39

naudefj

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I just want to report that after implementing image WIDTH and HEIGHT attributes, pages don't just load faster, but they don't jump around while loading anymore. Well worth the effort!

Best regards.

Frank

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22778 is a reply to message #22777]

Tue, 15 February 2005 22:06

Ilia

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It only depends on the speed of the renderer and how the page is retrieved and how quickly can the images be fetched. In most cases after the images are cached, the dynamic resizing no longer occurs.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22786 is a reply to message #22778]

Wed, 16 February 2005 05:31

naudefj

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True, however, I will keep them as they make my site look better and load faster. Remember to remove the remaining WIDTH and HEIGHT attributes from your images (the templates are rather inconsistent)!

Anyway, what about the ALT= and TITLE= attributes?

Best regards.

Frank

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Re: Consistent usage of TITLE= in IMG tags [message #22787 is a reply to message #22786]

Wed, 16 February 2005 05:38

Ilia

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Let's keep this thread a live and let more people express their opinions and ideas. I haven't yet formulated my final stance on the matter.

FUDforum Core Developer

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